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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jolyon Maugham Gets It Wrong Again

88 replies

Arran2024 · 16/04/2025 13:45

Hilarious addition to today's happy news about the legal definition of 'woman'.

https://x.com/Gillian_Philip/status/1912480491405443123

https://x.com/Gillian_Philip/status/1912480491405443123

OP posts:
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SionnachRuadh · 17/04/2025 13:37

I may also be out of touch, but it seems to me that the girls who want to be boys still go for names that are a wee bit swishy. They never seem to become Jim or Mark or Brian.

Chersfrozenface · 17/04/2025 13:36

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/04/2025 13:22

I thought Cameron and Felix were common boys' names these days, but I am out of touch on this area.

Cameron was very popular in the early 2000s then starting dropping like a stone in 2009. So most of the born Camerons will be aged 16 to 25.

Felix dropped out of the top 100 in 1980 and only reappeared at the bottom end in the last 3 years. So most of the born Felixes are over 40 or toddlers.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/04/2025 13:22

I thought Cameron and Felix were common boys' names these days, but I am out of touch on this area.

SionnachRuadh · 17/04/2025 13:15

GiveMeSpanakopita · 17/04/2025 12:53

Almost every sentence of that interview is disturbing.

Also: Grin, Ace, Chalky...why have they all chosen names from old school Grange Hill?

It must be some strange youth thing that I can't figure out. Like the way transmen often call themselves "Cameron" or "Felix" rather than common boys' names.

I would mention TW often using names that sound like a character Shannon Tweed would play in a 1990s soft porn movie, but that's easier to understand.

GiveMeSpanakopita · 17/04/2025 12:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Almost every sentence of that interview is disturbing.

Also: Grin, Ace, Chalky...why have they all chosen names from old school Grange Hill?

MarieDeGournay · 17/04/2025 12:42

The rest to some faint meaning make pretence,
But Shadwell never deviates into sense.

These lines from Dryden - the only two I remember from having studied the whole poem at school! - popped into my head as I read this thread... can't think why😏

ArchibaldBoyd · 17/04/2025 12:31

I know one of Jolyon's fans. He's a left wing middle class, champagne socialist with a Oxbridge law, no kids, former hobosexual with a new much younger wife he met on Twitter. Likes to believe in doing The Right Thing and probably claims to be a feminist, but only for men claiming to be women. Went down a rabbit hole in Covid and has hasn't come out of it.

SinnerBoy · 17/04/2025 12:30

I'm sorry, but I disagree with JKR and her comment about Jolly Old Mawks.

He has got an unblemished record. In single handedly destroying every TRA case he's had the slightest passing acquaintance with.

Thanks, Jolly!

SionnachRuadh · 17/04/2025 12:20

RS21, aye. That's the former members of the SWP who left 11 or 12 years ago on the reasonable grounds that left wing groups shouldn't cover up the rape of their members.

Their current position seems to be that trans and NB youth are the revolutionary subject in our society, and women just need to budge up. They also published a completely barking defence of Kath Stock losing her job.

Oddly, they agree on this with their former organisation. I'm tempted to say you can take the MRA out of the SWP... though I suspect there's also an element of ageing Trots looking for a cause, any cause, that seems to be popular with the under 60s. Which means the young people they do attract will be the ones who think the Greens aren't mad enough on the subject.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 17/04/2025 12:02

RealFeminist · 17/04/2025 10:37

HES NO EVEN DIGINFED THE CHEESE MAN WI A RESPONSE

Love this 😂

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/04/2025 11:55

This reply has been deleted

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Arran2024 · 17/04/2025 11:41

fromorbit · 16/04/2025 20:39

For anyone who wants an extra giggle today here is his utterly insane take on the ruling:

https://archive.is/xWnp7

Love this bit

We know this because the organisation I run, Good Law Project, has funded and supported their legal actions in the past and we have seen the consequences.

Yes the consequences were you made a lot of money and you LOST.

He even boasts about the incompetent way he makes money:

But we did persuade the two architects of the Gender Recognition Act that created that certificate to intervene: an academic, Stephen Whittle, and until she resigned because of what she experienced as a judge, our only “out” trans High Court judge, Victoria McCloud. Both trans, both with a gender recognition certificate.
Three barristers worked on their intervention – two are now KCs – and they spent hundreds of hours and many tens of thousands of pounds working on it. We funded them. But without even giving reasons, the Supreme Court flatly refused.

He raised £31,874 from 849 donors for that without having any real basis to intervene it was a waste of time and money.

This article is now an article on The Independent, which is only online now. To read it you have to register, but it's fairly easy to do so. And it allows for comments https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trans-supreme-court-women-verdict-b2734476.html?loginSuccessful=true

We left it to the Supreme Court to decide ‘what a woman is’ – they chose wrong

The Supreme Court’s decision regarding trans women has made me ashamed of my profession – and ashamed of what our law has become, writes Good Law Project founder Jolyon Maugham KC

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trans-supreme-court-women-verdict-b2734476.html?loginSuccessful=true

OP posts:
GiveMeSpanakopita · 17/04/2025 11:34

RealFeminist · 17/04/2025 10:37

HES NO EVEN DIGINFED THE CHEESE MAN WI A RESPONSE

Must be a tough day for you @RealFeminist , no?

NotBadConsidering · 17/04/2025 10:47

GiveMeSpanakopita · 17/04/2025 10:16

I hope not, he's an important source of online comedy for me.

Plus, I said on another thread that I’d happily contribute to a crowd funder for a trans activist looking to employ his services (or those of Robin Moira White) because:

a) it’s comedy gold
b) you’re actually paying for a GC win and
c) the more cases they take up the more GC wins get racked up.

It may be a grift, but he’s a GC gift.

RealFeminist · 17/04/2025 10:37

HES NO EVEN DIGINFED THE CHEESE MAN WI A RESPONSE

Jolyon Maugham Gets It Wrong Again
Chersfrozenface · 17/04/2025 10:36

It's not professional suicide to spout incorrect nonsense if that nonsense has sufficient appeal to a sufficient number of paying punters.

Of course, if fashions change and the paying punters are no longer there, one would presumably have to pivot smartly, or just retire.

Brainworm · 17/04/2025 10:27

It seems like professional suicide to me. His commentary doesn’t align with what the case set out to determine and what was ruled. His objections linked to the judges not hearing from trans people infers that the judges chose whose evidence they heard.

He throws in a few comments about the legal system not being fit for purpose, which does make me think that he knows that he is spouting shit, but thinks the ends justifies the means. In criticising the ‘legal system’ in a broad brush way, he could make a (very weak) defence that he knew what the judges needed to rule on and who is responsible for the evidence placed before them, but was choosing to focus attention on other matters.

FWS chose who to put in front of the judges to give evidence in support of their case, and the Scottish Government chose who they wanted to give evidence- and could have included trans people if they so chose.

SionnachRuadh · 17/04/2025 10:20

Sometimes I imagine Jolyon is one of those fictional characters that entertain us while suckering the gullible into believing that they're real, like Ali G or Laurie Penny.

GiveMeSpanakopita · 17/04/2025 10:16

outofdate · 16/04/2025 19:39

He’s finished

I hope not, he's an important source of online comedy for me.

GiveMeSpanakopita · 17/04/2025 10:10

If a case is so straightforward as to be 'not arguable' then how da fuq does it make it all the way to the Supreme Court?

Surely a proper lawyer would know this?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/04/2025 09:57

This is interesting. Very carefully worded to avoid suggesting that there might be a blood relationship between 'RJW' and JM, which would obviously be pure speculation.

Good Law Project: JoMo v MoFo | Labour Pains

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/04/2025 09:47

JM gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure yesterday. Quite a change for him. Shame he won't have seen any of it as he's got so many people blocked.

Jolyon Maugham Gets It Wrong Again
TWETMIRF · 17/04/2025 09:37

I can't decide if he spoke to 3 people who identified as KCs or if he identified as having spoke to 3 KCs

SionnachRuadh · 17/04/2025 09:28

The advantage of having a lawyer with skin in the game is that he'll fight like crazy for his position. The disadvantage is that he won't be able to be objective about the strength or weakness of that position.

IANAL, but something I know quite a lot about is polling. The pollster who tells her client what they want to hear is IMO guilty of malpractice.

If a TRA group hired me to advise them on a political campaign, I'd say "The electorate objectively is not buying what you're selling. Your demands have 20% support max, and that's probably exaggerated due to social desirability bias. You need to scale back your demands, find a narrative that can win sympathy and see if you can get that 20% up to 30%."

Luckily for our side, people in ideological bubbles don't think like that. If everyone you know is a massive TRA or feels they have to pretend to be, it's easy to convince yourself that your position has overwhelming support and all you need to do is bully the minority into silence. They can't even see that they're the extremist minority.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/04/2025 07:32

As someone upthread said, Jolyon has trans identifying child/ren. Like others with trans identifying children he cannot afford to admit that he may have been wrong.

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