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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 10

858 replies

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2025 11:08

Continuation of Thread 9.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 9 | Mumsnet

Continuation of Thread 8. There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5132652-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-9?

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Kucinghitam · 02/11/2025 16:09

Jack is rather a navel-gazing arse who can't see how privileged he is, yet everybody looks up to him, and he's so dismissive of Sally for most of the film, and it's only that he means well and realises his mistakes at the end that redeems him. Just that little extra thing that only occurred to me on my umpty-umpth watching of a film so familiar that I can recite most of the songs and dialogue!

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Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 02/11/2025 15:42

That makes a great deal of sense, Kuc.

Kucinghitam · 02/11/2025 15:04

Today's random thought!

Yesterday we watched, as dictated by FamilyKuc tradition must happed between Halloween and Christmas, The Nightmare Before Christmas.

Listening to Jack Skellington's Obsession song, I suddenly had a weird insight. The people of Halloween Town have no real clue what Christmas is actually about. Jack Skellington himself, despite his mid-life-crisis dissatisfaction with his real day-to-day life, and resulting obsession with reinventing himself as Christmas King, has no real clue what Christmas is actually about - he can only see the external manifestations of Christmassy-ness. Jack, like all the residents of Halloween Town, is completely unable to really grasp Christmas... because they are creatures of Halloween, not creatures of Christmas.

And yet, Jack believes that Christmas can be his for the taking (or rather, stealing from the people of Christmas Town and the human world itself). He even believes he's better qualified to improve Christmas!

It's simple really, very clear
Like music drifting in the air
Invisible, but everywhere
Just because I cannot see it
Doesn't mean I can't believe it!
You know, I think this Christmas thing
Is not as tricky as it seems
And why should they have all the fun?
It should belong to anyone
Not anyone, in fact, but me
Why, I could make a Christmas tree
And there's no reason I can find
I couldn't handle Christmas time
I bet I could improve it too
And that's exactly what I'll do
Hee, hee, hee, hee, hee!
Eureka! I've got it! This year Christmas will be ours!

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Britinme · 30/10/2025 12:06

How awful for those women in the spa Kuc, and I’m glad you were all there to help. Shame that word “gender” cropped up but good that one of your DDs called it what it was - sex.

moto748e · 30/10/2025 10:55

They can't not have done, surely. But you obviously have a great relationship with them.

Kucinghitam · 30/10/2025 10:31

moto748e · 30/10/2025 10:26

i am gob-smacked that your DDs have avoided male misbehaviour if they live and study in a large English city, Kuc. But agree that's a big class and income factor in hand-maidening.

Yes, I'm happily gob-smacked too. It is entirely possible that they have experienced things but haven't told me. I reckon I hardly told my parents anything about all the times I was harassed, molested, etc - although that was a different time, culture, etc and I like to think as "modern" parents we're far more communicative with our DDs.

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moto748e · 30/10/2025 10:26

i am gob-smacked that your DDs have avoided male misbehaviour if they live and study in a large English city, Kuc. But agree that's a big class and income factor in hand-maidening.

Kucinghitam · 30/10/2025 06:31

Thing that happened a couple of weekends ago (bear with me, a bit stream of consciousness so feel free to skip).

FamilyKuc had been out doing stuff in the city centre and stayed for an early-ish dinner. We went to the bus stop on the main high street to catch the bus home. It was around 8:30pm, so not late, but late enough for early Saturday night "revellers" to have started arriving in the city centre.

Above the row of shops behind the bus stop, there's some sort of (self-billed) Hong Kong style massage and spa establishment.

As we were standing at the bus stop, we became aware of a disturbance: clattering, crashing sounds, galumphing down the stairs sounds, and that general incoherent whopping vocalisation which will be familiar to anyone who's encountered an exuberant gathering of young men. We turned to see 4-5 young men bursting out of the massage shop's narrow stairway entrance and whooping triumphantly as they ran off along the high street, the last man pushing over the pair of floral planters on either side of the door, flinging plants and soil all over the public pavement. We could see the stairwell too was covered in broken pots, soil and pulled-up plants. Three Chinese women (looked mid-30s in age) came down the stairs looking shell-shocked.

We and several passers-by came over to check they were OK and helped to tidy up the mess on the pavement. The women said something about the group having come upstairs, made enquiries (not clear whether this was a pretext to enter the premises, or whether a genuine enquiry had led to some sort of disagreement), then started acting up and trashing their extensive collection of plants. The women were all in tears and it was awful to watch them sweeping up their broken pots and having to throw away destroyed plants.

I commented furiously on the clearly racist and sexist nature of this attack. DD1 looked stunned and exclaimed, "I don't think [the victims'] gender had anything to do with it!" and for a moment I was speechless. Then DD2 quietly said, "Well, I doubt if those men would have done it if there'd been a male staff member present." So DD2 at least seemed to get it, on some level.

Anyway, TL:DR.

What I've been dwelling on is: I'm so thankful that my teenage DDs seem to have escaped any direct experience of male-on-female "misbehaviour" such that they can go around blissfully unaware. Long may it continue, preferably forever! But perhaps it's precisely this sort of {sheltered (not sure if that's the right word?) in a fortunate bubble of nice friends and loving family, also an enormous element of good luck, plus a big dose of middle-class confident selective blindness} thing that is the underpinning of so many BeKind hand-maidens?

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SinnerBoy · 29/10/2025 22:43

crabbyoldbat · 17/10/2025 11:08

get the edge of the towel on my forehead

This is where you're going wrong - the edge of the towel should be on the nape of your neck, then twist at the front, on the forehead, while you're bent down

Thanks, Crabby.

FarriersGirl · 29/10/2025 18:03

I have read a few of her books and follow her on SM as she comes across as intelligent and thoughtful. Not sure of her GC credentials but the article does seem to indicate she is interested in the fate of women and girls.

DontStopMe · 29/10/2025 16:11

moto748e · 29/10/2025 13:11

Anyone know anything about Kate Mosse (with an 'e')? Just reading a piece by her in the NS.

She writes historical novels. I tried reading one once but didn't get very far. I don't know any more about her.

moto748e · 29/10/2025 15:57

Kucinghitam · 29/10/2025 15:03

No idea @moto748e, what is the article about?

https://archive.ph/wGV4l

If that works. it was the last couple of sentences... made me put pen to paper!

Kucinghitam · 29/10/2025 15:03

No idea @moto748e, what is the article about?

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moto748e · 29/10/2025 13:11

Anyone know anything about Kate Mosse (with an 'e')? Just reading a piece by her in the NS.

crabbyoldbat · 17/10/2025 11:08

get the edge of the towel on my forehead

This is where you're going wrong - the edge of the towel should be on the nape of your neck, then twist at the front, on the forehead, while you're bent down

moto748e · 16/10/2025 19:19

I can see a hit new ITV game-show! 😃

SinnerBoy · 16/10/2025 19:13

SqueakyDinosaur · 14/10/2025 13:20

To make a towel (or any other) turban: Bend forwards. Drape towel over head with the edge at your hairline. Bring the ends together at your forehead, twist the ends together and tuck in at the back.

Yes, that's what I do, bend over and let my hair drop down, a corner in each hand and get the edge of the towel on my forehead and swing back, then twist it. Nowhere near as neat as the photos.

I'm obviously not manning at all! 55, long hair and a full head, like both my granddads.

FarriersGirl · 16/10/2025 17:38

Done

lcakethereforeIam · 16/10/2025 16:32

I've signed it and I'll try to spread the word.

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 16/10/2025 13:34

NoBinturongsHereMate · 16/10/2025 12:39

And I think the rest of Australia has always considered that the 'a bit mad' zone. Still, it's a start.

Except that now it’s the sane zone

NoBinturongsHereMate · 16/10/2025 12:39

And I think the rest of Australia has always considered that the 'a bit mad' zone. Still, it's a start.

moto748e · 16/10/2025 12:19

27m people in Australia, and only about a quarter of a million in the NT. I suppose there's Darwin, and that's about it.

SqueakyDinosaur · 16/10/2025 11:47

It's taken its time to arrive, but alleluia!

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