Women's rights general conversations - Thread 10

News from South Africa, for those who don't patrol the other folder: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5447988-south-africa-gbv-declared-a-national-disaster?

Way behind in my reading as usual, I'm reading this piece on maternity services in the UK by Hannah Barnes from a couple weeks back. It's long, and quite a harrowing read; there are some heart-breaking stories. But what strikes me is how it highlights all the failings of the NHS which have led to all these tribunals. Mothers and front-line staff (midwives in particular) are suffering, and the response of the bigwigs is callous and insulting. Wes Streeting is on the case, but there is so much inertia in the system.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2025/11/britains-next-maternity-scandal

Weird, isn't it. Feels like we're living in a fever dream.

Jeez, three-post ment!

So just lately, we've had: a woman who isn't sure what sex she is, because she hasn't checked her chromosomes, a male doctor who claims confidently that he is a woman, people running an arts organisation who claim not to recognise obvious references to one of the most famous novels in the English language, or the film Gaslight (two Oscars and Ingrid Bergman, FFS!). For how much longer are going to see intelligent people beclowning themselves like this?

Purely by chance, just came across this article, which i thought was interesting.

https://newdiscourses.com/2021/09/yes-your-kids-trans-thing-phase/

That's some amazing stuff this morning!

Sara Morrison, forgive me:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5444170-sara-morrison-vs-belfast-film-festival-thread-2?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Blimey there’s just been a development in the Sarah Morrison case- one of the panel members seems to be over-close to the trans movement and the judge probably should have asked her to recuse herself but didn’t, so N Cunningham is saying the whole panel should recuse themselves. There’s a new MN thread to follow things.

That was a delightful read - thank you for sharing! I particularly loved the AI philosopher’s analysis of the panini as a neoliberal flattening - and the actual author’s lament that the AI was better at mocking continental philosophy than he was.

This is entertaining and true in equal measure:
https://open.substack.com/pub/benthams/p/how-continental-philosophers-argue?r=7wkog&utm_medium=ios

It was just coming in as I left BigCo. I got asked in a few meetings (mainly with public sector clients), and eventually perfected the Hard Stare, raised eyebrow and "Fairly obvious, I would hope". It's all SUCH bullshit.

If you really want this job, I would say something like neutral such as 'sex-based' or "the standard ones" when they ask for pronouns.

I've shut it down quickly on the two times it happened to me in meetings by pointing out I am deaf, I lipread and the pronouns issues just adds to the conversation burden, so if anyone is really that uncomfortable please can they use names for that third person reference?

I get immensely annoyed by people doing performative bullshit which excludes disabled colleges.

If anyone is considering a little work around the eyebrows, a lift or botox perhaps, don't bother - just read the TT summary of the GLP's SC challenge. Mine are going to be stuck to my hairline for weeks.

I just hope the poor judge had a bottle of good whisky waiting at home. This is their second attempt, after he's given them advice, and he's still having to walk them through how to make their case point by point. 'You need to specify which paras of the legislation.', 'That's a poor example, this would be better.', 'That's argues against your point.' It must feel like wading through GCSE coursework.

Morning session: https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1988667747715481996?

Afternoon: https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1988703792339313096?

Some other PPs will need to help here: I’m sure there was a whole long list of things that one could say in response to “what are your pronouns?” I seem to recall “The usual ones,” or “the ones you would expect,” featured in the most popular. Not saying anything, or just saying “no thank you” were also suggested.

Aha, found some of them:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5337972-request-to-share-pronouns

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5145871-what-will-i-say-pronouns

There are more, those were just the top two that came up when I searched “ask for pronouns” on this board. Note: not all are serious or suitable if you actually want the job.

I know someone, a gay man, who has gone from a massively senior role in one multinational to another in another, who said he submitted "cunt/cunt" as his pronouns at the first place. Oddly, it stopped being mandatory shortly after. And yes, I do believe him. He's hugely talented and in demand, so it probably did help stop it.

Idk….it might just be that the group’s secretary filled in the info and thought that’s what was the norm in academia and no-one CBA to query it. Leftover #bekind could do it.

That was my thinking, Lovelyview. Pronouns seem a bit old hat these days and it would be strange to try and get you involved.

Apply for the job then say you don't do pronouns if you get it. So many people are stepping back from this now. In a recent online discussion (distance learning, arts subject) out of 40 people only 2 had put their pronouns next to their name.

What’s the sex and age distribution like, @Kucinghitam?

@Kucinghitam:

So either they're all True Believers, or some of them are Extra High Priestly Pushy True Believers and the rest are fearful compliers/unthinking acolytes?

That would be my worry. And I could maybe live with either, but in the back of my mind I would worry that they would want me to proclaim my pronouns, which I would not be comfortable with - how would that then work? Would they insist? Would I be ostracised? Would I feel I had to go along with it to do my work?

None of which is helpful - just to say I sympathise.