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English Blackball Pool Federation

805 replies

Signalbox · 06/04/2025 08:40

The hearing is scheduled for 7th-11th April at Canterbury County Court.

Tribunal Tweets will be following the case…

Live tweeting sessions Abbreviations
J - His Honour Judge Parker
HH - Harriet Haynes, claimant
RW - Robin White, claimant’s barrister
CC - Colman Coyle, claimant's solicitor
EBPF - English Blackball Pool Federation
PT - Paul Thomson, defendant
AG - Anna Goodwin, defendant
SC - Sarah Crowther KC, defendants’ barristers, and
SS - Sapandeep Singh Maini-Thompson
JRL - JR Levins LLP, defendants’ solicitor
JG - James Goodwin, witness for defendant

The original thread has been deleted for “breaking Mumsnet guidelines”. Not sure why but possibly “misgendering” or possibly making it too easy to find the crowdfund @mumsnet it would be good if you could let us know so this thread can stay up. Do we have to pretend that the Claimant is female?

English Blackball Pool Federation
OP posts:
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Mmmnotsure · 10/04/2025 19:08

Can anyone tell me the best way to query a deletion? Tx.

BunfightBetty · 10/04/2025 18:40

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 15:38

RMW flailing with Van Boening's name again but couldn't remember the initials. After a helpful reminder RMW snarked 'I promise to take more interest in pool in future'.

Funny RMW was snarky about it, given they expect everyone to take a great deal of interest in their idiosyncratic sense of identity, and seek to control the language we use about themself, such that we have to deny the evidence of our own eyes and ears.

Cailleach1 · 10/04/2025 17:05

Cailleach1 · 10/04/2025 16:34

He’s speaking with clarity. Using language to more easily communicate, not couch it in dense scientific jargon. PF’s communication was so unclear. It really seemed to be a use of very scientific language to obfuscate.

The height thing was interesting. Dr Dave’s 6’2, so doesn’t regard 5’11 as tall.

I suppose I’d better clarify (sic!) that I have no idea whatsoever whether or not it was the intention of the good PF to obfuscate, but that is what that dense scientific jargon does to a non scientist.

The concepts can be difficult to grasp, and I think Dr Dave did a masterclass in speaking plainly. And indeed, he was easily able to pick out and elucidate on the pertinent points in the good PF’s simulation.

moto748e · 10/04/2025 16:56

I'd never heard of Fargo ratings before, but they seem to be mostly about 9-ball (American) pool. Found the page, and got HH's rating, but searching for other female 8-ball players (and, indeed, male ones) doesn't show much. One or two are listed, with low "robustness" ratings. I surmise that to mean that they are 8-ball players who have played the odd game of 9-ball, so their ranking is based on only a few results.

https://fairmatch.fargorate.com/

FargoRate - FairMatch

Setup fair matches between players of different abilities.

https://fairmatch.fargorate.com

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 16:49

Finished for the day. Back at 10am.

Await incoming monitors...

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 16:42

Dr A says he's found online that HH has a Fargo rating of 629 which is pretty much what he estimated. Shortly afterwards RMW in the background says HH is surprised to find they have a Fargo rating. Dr A says maybe there's another HH or, as he can see the rating is marked not robust, perhaps it was based on a single competition.

Cailleach1 · 10/04/2025 16:34

He’s speaking with clarity. Using language to more easily communicate, not couch it in dense scientific jargon. PF’s communication was so unclear. It really seemed to be a use of very scientific language to obfuscate.

The height thing was interesting. Dr Dave’s 6’2, so doesn’t regard 5’11 as tall.

wantmorenow · 10/04/2025 16:26

Also a publicly declared gender critical police officer and an editor of a published gender critical book. All using their full identifiable names. I am in esteemed company and wish I understood more and was able to better grasp the complex arguments being presented. It's great to see this case getting the time and focus big names.

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 16:25

J - what would you say HH's Fargo rating is?
Dr A - haven't seen HH play but probably about 600.

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 16:21

J's questions. Some very careful technical questions about using power and control when balls are touching. Or not.

Madcats · 10/04/2025 16:20

On balance, whose evidence do you think the Judge is more likely to find more compelling:
a) a non-player, computer-modelling/simulating the wrong game, with no allowance for height/arm length
b) a researcher who did a study comparing unfit trans (self-reporting fitness level) against elite female athletes
c) a mechanical engineering prof who has coached many many men and women to play pool and billiards and has been writing books/web resources on the games for 21 years?

Tricky, eh?

I think I read somewhere that HH also plans to sue another Pool Association?

wantmorenow · 10/04/2025 16:17

Just noticed the presence in online names of observers of a professor specialising in political philosophy specialising in sport. Not sure if naming him would be ok so avoiding that,

Cailleach1 · 10/04/2025 16:16

It’s Dr Dave!

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 16:15

tigertactics · 10/04/2025 16:12

I have a bit of a crush on him. He's such a sweetie.

He's been a very impressive expert witness. But human too.

tigertactics · 10/04/2025 16:12

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 16:10

A short break now. I love Dr A. Grin

I have a bit of a crush on him. He's such a sweetie.

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 16:10

A short break now. I love Dr A. Grin

Cailleach1 · 10/04/2025 16:09

Preposterous sums quite a lot of what we’ve heard.

NotAtMyAge · 10/04/2025 15:59

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 15:47

Defence Counsel interjects to quietly point out to RMW that RMW is now asking the witness about material that was stricken from evidence on RMW's own application last week.

😂😂😂 You truly couldn't make it up!

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 15:56

Re examination. Dr A confirms he has taught cue sports to thousands of both men and women over 20 years. He confirms that there are differences between men and women in power shots, especially the break, and ability to pocket the ball.

Signalbox · 10/04/2025 15:55

This witness evidence is invaluable. His experience with teaching gives him ++++ credibility.

OP posts:
murasaki · 10/04/2025 15:48

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moto748e · 10/04/2025 15:47

i'd love to know what the other top female pool players, like Emma Cunningham, Barbara Taylor and Marion Jude, 'really' think of all this.

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 15:47

Defence Counsel interjects to quietly point out to RMW that RMW is now asking the witness about material that was stricken from evidence on RMW's own application last week.

Cailleach1 · 10/04/2025 15:47

Oh. RW saying a lot that you haven’t done anything when criticising PF simulation. Then AD saying I did stuff but it was not admissible. So, is it like not allowing the charts showing top 100 male and female.

Mmmnotsure · 10/04/2025 15:44

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 15:42

Tbf to RMW there is an audio delay because the witness is in Colorado.

Yes, but by now RW surely should have managed to understand how it is working. And often it is clear that the witness hasn't finished speaking - ie giving that part of his evidence.