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English Blackball Pool Federation

805 replies

Signalbox · 06/04/2025 08:40

The hearing is scheduled for 7th-11th April at Canterbury County Court.

Tribunal Tweets will be following the case…

Live tweeting sessions Abbreviations
J - His Honour Judge Parker
HH - Harriet Haynes, claimant
RW - Robin White, claimant’s barrister
CC - Colman Coyle, claimant's solicitor
EBPF - English Blackball Pool Federation
PT - Paul Thomson, defendant
AG - Anna Goodwin, defendant
SC - Sarah Crowther KC, defendants’ barristers, and
SS - Sapandeep Singh Maini-Thompson
JRL - JR Levins LLP, defendants’ solicitor
JG - James Goodwin, witness for defendant

The original thread has been deleted for “breaking Mumsnet guidelines”. Not sure why but possibly “misgendering” or possibly making it too easy to find the crowdfund @mumsnet it would be good if you could let us know so this thread can stay up. Do we have to pretend that the Claimant is female?

English Blackball Pool Federation
OP posts:
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28
Bundlejuice · 07/04/2025 22:26

I DID like your true story 😍

Bannedontherun · 07/04/2025 22:18

Was not sure about posting this earlier. I was an amateur female pool player in the eighties. The leagues i was involved in were pubs and working men’s clubs.

There were not any female only leagues where i lived so i played against and with men.

i was going to waffle on about technicalities of the game. But thought you might like this story better.

Out on the piss with my girlie girlfriends, big hair all of that. Me docs back tights, scraped back hair thing.

Went into a ruffty tuffty pub, mates wanted to show my skills of sooo plonked fifty pence on table.

Man with “cut here” tattooed on his neck was my opponent.

Says would you like me to break love

Me “no lets toss”

i win toss, I break, pot three.

He gets one go fluffed it (obvs panicking)

seven balled him.

His mates pissing themselves, my girly mates dancing a gooden.

Me “next” girly mate hands me a pint of cider.

Beat them all. Danced out the door.

the disadvantage THEY had was the fear of being beaten by a woman.

technically women are at a disadvantage. Because of height hand size and strength.

Hope you liked my true story.

NotAtMyAge · 07/04/2025 21:31

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/04/2025 21:18

Isn't it great. The journalist, Oliver Brown, has been writing powerfully about all this for some years and giving women a voice.

Show quote history

Oliver Brown (plus one or two like-minded colleagues) is the reason I have a Telegraph subscription at all. It's certainly not for the politics.

moto748e · 07/04/2025 21:24

It does seem to me to, that the little I see of it, general opinion on SM has less and less time for genderism. Those remarks like "why are you so obsessed with toilets" are much rarer lately. People see it for what it is; mediocre males muscling in.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/04/2025 21:18

Datun · 07/04/2025 21:10

Yes that's a good article.

No one is buying this bullshit anymore.

It's not a single comment is even the slightest bit equivocal. Everyone knows it's about rubbish male athletes chancing their arm in the women's league.

Show quote history

Isn't it great. The journalist, Oliver Brown, has been writing powerfully about all this for some years and giving women a voice.

Datun · 07/04/2025 21:10

lcakethereforeIam · 07/04/2025 20:06

Just read this in the Telegraph, Oliver Brown

https://archive.ph/HqCXX

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/snooker/2025/04/07/womens-pool-final-between-two-biological-men-transgender/

Yes that's a good article.

No one is buying this bullshit anymore.

It's not a single comment is even the slightest bit equivocal. Everyone knows it's about rubbish male athletes chancing their arm in the women's league.

TrainedByCats · 07/04/2025 20:55

That’s a good article

Bundlejuice · 07/04/2025 20:23

Thank you for the Telegraph link.

lcakethereforeIam · 07/04/2025 20:06

Just read this in the Telegraph, Oliver Brown

https://archive.ph/HqCXX

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/snooker/2025/04/07/womens-pool-final-between-two-biological-men-transgender/

Mmmnotsure · 07/04/2025 19:57

Where things are likely to cross the line is when multiple posts start referring to a trans person using “he” or “him” in a way that appears provocative, mocking or needlessly confrontational.

That reminds me of the Sandie Peggie case where the judge said at the start that they could call a man 'he' as long as they didn't do it gratuitously or too often.

And then we spent two weeks listening to Dr Upton being called he, and being told he was male, with no pushback... presumably because all that was being said was the truth, using words for clarity, accuracy and honesty and in the normal way for spoken English.

BunfightBetty · 07/04/2025 19:50

Signalbox · 07/04/2025 19:29

This is what Mumsnet said. I assume it's OK to post what they emailed to me since it applies to us all...

"This is one of those situations where context really does matter – and we appreciate that can be a frustrating answer. The truth is, it’s often just as frustrating to moderate.

As a general example: if someone were to say, “X is male, and for that reason I don’t think they should compete in Y sport against biological women” - that would likely be seen as relevant to the topic and within the rules.

Mumsnet remains one of the few mainstream platforms that allows for openly gender critical viewpoints to be expressed. But we can only maintain that if discussions stay civil - and that means ensuring they’re open to posters with a range of perspectives, including those who may strongly disagree.

Where things are likely to cross the line is when multiple posts start referring to a trans person using “he” or “him” in a way that appears provocative, mocking or needlessly confrontational.

We continue to host these conversations even though they come with significant challenges, from the moderation resource they require to the impact on our advertising. In return, we ask that users help us keep them within the boundaries of our guidelines."

Edited
Show quote history

Thanks @Signalbox

Does anybody know what particular ‘line’ ie law, would be crossed here? Presumably we’re allowed to have personal opinion of somebody, even if others/the person themselves find it offensive.

Where things are likely to cross the line is when multiple posts start referring to a trans person using “he” or “him” in a way that appears provocative, mocking or needlessly confrontational

DialSquare · 07/04/2025 19:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

That long?

Original poster
Signalbox · 07/04/2025 19:29

Datun · 07/04/2025 19:26

I reckon you could say he.

I don't think you could say some brick shit house, cock wielding wanker of a bloke.

However accurate

Edited say, that's just a general description, HQ, no one specific

Edited
Show quote history

This is what Mumsnet said. I assume it's OK to post what they emailed to me since it applies to us all...

"This is one of those situations where context really does matter – and we appreciate that can be a frustrating answer. The truth is, it’s often just as frustrating to moderate.

As a general example: if someone were to say, “X is male, and for that reason I don’t think they should compete in Y sport against biological women” - that would likely be seen as relevant to the topic and within the rules.

Mumsnet remains one of the few mainstream platforms that allows for openly gender critical viewpoints to be expressed. But we can only maintain that if discussions stay civil - and that means ensuring they’re open to posters with a range of perspectives, including those who may strongly disagree.

Where things are likely to cross the line is when multiple posts start referring to a trans person using “he” or “him” in a way that appears provocative, mocking or needlessly confrontational.

We continue to host these conversations even though they come with significant challenges, from the moderation resource they require to the impact on our advertising. In return, we ask that users help us keep them within the boundaries of our guidelines."

OP posts:
Datun · 07/04/2025 19:26

Signalbox · 07/04/2025 17:53

I did send them a message asking them to clarify this point. They have said it’s about context. I think to be on the safe side it’s probably best not to refer to the men involved in this case as “he”.

Show quote history

I reckon you could say he.

I don't think you could say some brick shit house, cock wielding wanker of a bloke.

However accurate

Edited say, that's just a general description, HQ, no one specific

murasaki · 07/04/2025 19:23

Which surely undermines the whole thing as it's all about how HH feels they are a woman. Either the feelz count or they don't.

Original poster
Signalbox · 07/04/2025 19:21

I thought the judge was a bit short with HH at times. When HH was going overboard on how upset HH was the judge cut HH off a couple of times to keep HH on track. The judge didn't seem that interested in HH's feelings.

OP posts:
Original poster
Signalbox · 07/04/2025 19:19

Bannedontherun · 07/04/2025 18:58

Yet to read the afternoon session, just commenting (or bragging) i was fucking well right.

RMW is arguing that TWAW in a roundabout fashion, thems are saying that the ordinary male is not the correct compareter, and the legal arguments them made are fanciful to say the very least.

IANAL, but grateful for RMW for encouraging me to educate myself.

Isn't there caselaw that the comparator for GR discrimination is a male without the PC of GR? I thought I read somewhere that there was but not certain.

OP posts:
Datun · 07/04/2025 19:19

Then going on the facebook group and asking them to declare if he makes them feel unsafe. That is more bullish than distressed.

Absolutely.

It's sooo, 'go on punk make my day'.

Bannedontherun · 07/04/2025 19:10

RNApolymerase · 07/04/2025 19:07

Is there a way that we can make a donation to give some prize money to the rightful women winner and runner up?

Sounds like a thought to be considered

RNApolymerase · 07/04/2025 19:07

Is there a way that we can make a donation to give some prize money to the rightful women winner and runner up?

murasaki · 07/04/2025 19:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bannedontherun · 07/04/2025 18:58

Yet to read the afternoon session, just commenting (or bragging) i was fucking well right.

RMW is arguing that TWAW in a roundabout fashion, thems are saying that the ordinary male is not the correct compareter, and the legal arguments them made are fanciful to say the very least.

IANAL, but grateful for RMW for encouraging me to educate myself.

OP posts:
BunfightBetty · 07/04/2025 18:03

Signalbox · 07/04/2025 17:53

I did send them a message asking them to clarify this point. They have said it’s about context. I think to be on the safe side it’s probably best not to refer to the men involved in this case as “he”.

Show quote history

Context being that the person is male so masculine pronouns are correct for his sex?

I have played the (silly) game and not used the correct sex pronoun.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 07/04/2025 18:00

Ultimate Pool prize money.
**
Winner: £1,800
Runner-Up: £900
Semi-Finalist: £450
Quarter-Finalist: £250
Last 16: £100
The two [people] in the final made a combined £2,700. That's equal to the earnings of the rest of the 14 female prize winners combined.
The payouts from the open series are larger than the women's and are almost always taken by men, which is why the women's series exists. At this Ultimate Pool and Women's Ultimate Pool event, male athletes went home with a combined £31,700. Female competitors left with only £2,700 of the £5,400 that was allocated specifically for them. Men have taken over $48,000 in women's pool events.

https://x.com/hecheateddotorg/status/1909087273641300248

That is stark and sobering in several ways.

https://x.com/hecheateddotorg/status/1909087273641300248