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Original poster

English Blackball Pool Federation

805 replies

Signalbox · 06/04/2025 08:40

The hearing is scheduled for 7th-11th April at Canterbury County Court.

Tribunal Tweets will be following the case…

Live tweeting sessions Abbreviations
J - His Honour Judge Parker
HH - Harriet Haynes, claimant
RW - Robin White, claimant’s barrister
CC - Colman Coyle, claimant's solicitor
EBPF - English Blackball Pool Federation
PT - Paul Thomson, defendant
AG - Anna Goodwin, defendant
SC - Sarah Crowther KC, defendants’ barristers, and
SS - Sapandeep Singh Maini-Thompson
JRL - JR Levins LLP, defendants’ solicitor
JG - James Goodwin, witness for defendant

The original thread has been deleted for “breaking Mumsnet guidelines”. Not sure why but possibly “misgendering” or possibly making it too easy to find the crowdfund @mumsnet it would be good if you could let us know so this thread can stay up. Do we have to pretend that the Claimant is female?

English Blackball Pool Federation
OP posts:
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28
FlowchartRequired · 10/04/2025 11:41

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2025 11:36

<Visions of poor exhausted-yet-buff menfolk barely able to drag themselves around the place due to their dreadfully heavy bones>

Just what the actual fuck are these people on?

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I remember that scene in Conan. Poor Arnie could barely move...

puffyisgood · 10/04/2025 11:41

Signalbox · 10/04/2025 10:57

I find all this arguing about whether or not men have sufficiently weakened themselves in order to compete in the female category is offensive. Why should weakened men be considered to be acceptable competition for elite females?

it's incredibly stupid and offensive.

eg the women's world record for the 100m dash is 10.49 seconds.

the men's record is 9.58.

but then the men's masters records for older men get progressively slower.

eg for men over 40 years old the record is 9.93.

for men over 45 years old the record is 10.72.

so should men aged 45+ be allowed in women's races, no questions asked?

Snowypeaks · 10/04/2025 11:40

BH's basically arguing that men are disadvantaged at pool compared to women!
Whether BH realises it or not.

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 11:39

BH trying to say longer arms might be a disadvantage now.

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 11:38

tigertactics · 10/04/2025 11:33

He appears to be saying that having huge male muscly arms is a disadvantage because they have to move them about which is hard. How can he claim any professional competence?

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What exactly are the qualifications of this footballer and self-confessed geolist to give 'expert' evidence in this matter?

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2025 11:36

tigertactics · 10/04/2025 11:33

He appears to be saying that having huge male muscly arms is a disadvantage because they have to move them about which is hard. How can he claim any professional competence?

Show quote history

<Visions of poor exhausted-yet-buff menfolk barely able to drag themselves around the place due to their dreadfully heavy bones>

Just what the actual fuck are these people on?

tigertactics · 10/04/2025 11:33

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 11:30

Has BH just said men might have more muscle mass in their arms but they are hampered by having to overcome heavier bones??

He appears to be saying that having huge male muscly arms is a disadvantage because they have to move them about which is hard. How can he claim any professional competence?

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 11:30

Has BH just said men might have more muscle mass in their arms but they are hampered by having to overcome heavier bones??

puffyisgood · 10/04/2025 11:27

BH claims to be "NB feminine". At the risk of asking a silly question, what does that mean? identifying as female or something else?

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 11:27

On strength and speed BH has just said 'I'm a geologist, not a physicist. So I won't go into all that stuff, it's not my line.'

Gosh.

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 11:02

I'm in. The court was very quick to respond. I see that some very sensible ground rules for observers were issued by the judge at the outset. Good.

Original poster
Signalbox · 10/04/2025 11:02

Is Hilton an expert for the Defence?

OP posts:
tigertactics · 10/04/2025 10:59

Did they honestly expect BH was going to help their laughably weak case? This is painful.

Original poster
Signalbox · 10/04/2025 10:57

I find all this arguing about whether or not men have sufficiently weakened themselves in order to compete in the female category is offensive. Why should weakened men be considered to be acceptable competition for elite females?

OP posts:
Snowypeaks · 10/04/2025 10:56

And BH's questioning of whether males are on average stronger than women, which was an Agreed Fact is a perfect example of the ridiculous latitude the genderists get.

Snowypeaks · 10/04/2025 10:53

This whole, I accept she says the sky is blue but I would have to confirm that is driving me nuts.

The pauses before BH answers are so revealing.

Snowypeaks · 10/04/2025 10:49

Chrysanthemum5 · 10/04/2025 10:46

Reading tribunal tweets it seems as if this study is just one limitation after another. I'm interested in how RMW will pull this back to credibility.

Also did the witness say there is a joint report with Emma Hilton? Who I think is a GC academic?

Yes, joint report. Although SC is now talking about them disagreeing/talking past each other.

Chrysanthemum5 · 10/04/2025 10:46

Reading tribunal tweets it seems as if this study is just one limitation after another. I'm interested in how RMW will pull this back to credibility.

Also did the witness say there is a joint report with Emma Hilton? Who I think is a GC academic?

wantmorenow · 10/04/2025 10:44

Watching now. This study by the Scottish "academic" really is riddled with faults, assumptions and "I'm not sure" parameters. I was sceptical when it was described as athletic women versus overweight and unfit trans identifying men but even his own evidence seems to back this up. 😳

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2025 09:59

ThatPithySheep · 09/04/2025 15:47

This man's research interest is neutrinos, so while I'm willing to accept he understands how things interact, his relevance to pool and whether height, speed etc. would be an advantage seems a bit tenuous

While I'm sure the Good Prof has made some lovely computer models, famously neutrinos don't really interact with anything Grin

RoastOrMash · 10/04/2025 09:53

@Chrysanthemum5 10am according to yesterday' TT :-)

CriticalCondition · 10/04/2025 09:52

@RoastOrMash Brilliant! Thanks so much.

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 10/04/2025 09:52

Snowypeaks · 10/04/2025 09:40

Yes - "Who are the Beatles?" is the famous one!

I knew about Agreed Facts and General Knowledge - although I didn't know the legal terms for them - but what I am saying is that it's infuriating and odd that in this particular area of law, people are allowed to dispute CGK so often and to such an extent. The fact is that you can "make a case" for absolutely anything - this is what people do in debating societies. For fun, or as an exercise. But if this sort of latitude was allowed in other areas, cases would go on for ever and we would get even more bizarre results more frequently than we do.

When it comes down to it, we are litigating fact on one side and fantasy on the other and that should be recognised. What we need/needed is for someone to say at an early stage, "ffs don't be so bloody stupid."

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I think that boat has sailed. Because of the ridiculous laws that have been passed, we're left having to prove things that we always thought were obvious. In the teeth of official guidance, that assuming transwomen are different in any way from 'other' women is ignorant and prejudiced.

RoastOrMash · 10/04/2025 09:49

@CriticalCondition here's the details:
[email protected]
quote case number "K01CT207 Harriet Haynes vs Paul Thomson & Anna Goodwin (The English Blackball Poool Federation - Chairman & Secretary)"

You need to let them know your full name when requesting access.
They take a while to reply as pretty busy :-)

Chrysanthemum5 · 10/04/2025 09:48

What time is is starting today?