Anyone else worried Trump’s advocacy of gender-critical views taints and discredits them?

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

Their popularity has sunk to 26%.

This is just wild.

Okay, I'm American, lesbian and a lifelong libertarian-conservative.
The obsession here is Trump's personality. No one cares, we're not dating him. He just gave back women's rights and sports and isn't afraid to withhold Federal dollars to make states, like Maine fall in line.
He's shut the border and shipped out illegal hard-core gang members and now the foreign students on visas who were running and participating in university shut downs and anti-Semitism. He's cutting government fraud and waste.
All of which the Democrats oppose. Their popularity has sunk to 26%. Lowest ever recorded.
In the US Trump is very popular.

Yeah, I am actually unsure of what people mean when they say MAGA types, or conservatives, are transphobic, I a way that GC people are not.

Of course individuals vary, there are surely MAGA types that are fundamentally haters. But then, I've occasionally met GC people who were misandrists too - both seem more of an individual thing to me.

Even people like Matt Walsh, who is supposedly the epitome of the transphobic type, as far as I can see has the same fundamental issues with gender ideology:

It is scientific nonsense
It is dangerous for women and undermines women's rights
It is dangerous to children, psychologically and physically
It involves medical malpractice
It is being used as a vehicle for anti-social sexual behaviours
And even - it is bad for the people who have bought into it and identify as transgendered.

I'm really not seeing a fundamental difference here. I think that does, in fact, make people on the left who believe "being good" is inherently left wing, and that people on the right must be evil in some way, very, very uncomfortable. And that's the origin of a lot of these threads.

14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

Some people can’t function without a tribe of some sort. People who are tribal find it extremely frustrating having conversations with people who think critically and don’t need a tribe, I had it in my family growing up, especially with my father and two of my older brothers, because I didn’t comply with their rigidity of thinking, and had my own opinions, I was called stupid or awkward or difficult. The plain fact was I didn’t agree with them, and their failure to make me comply made them very angry. The fact that I was female didn’t help!

I think that there are still some people on social media and in real life who will continue to try to undermine the efforts of women regardless of the tone, the actions and the words that women say. All because they, personally, tend towards tribalism even when they will flat out deny that they do.

They will be affronted at the suggestion, yet the outcome of what they say, do and post themselves does reflect that tribalism.

Telling women's groups that they should also 'denounce' Trump while still trying to work with Trump's team seems to me to be an overly simplistic view on how campaigning works. And women shouldn't have to be constantly justifying their stance in fear that some groups that already have misrepresented our political alignment may continue to do so. Particularly since we are also confident that this issue negatively impacts all families and women across the political spectrum and this is reflected in the opinion polls.

Edit: Of course, I agree with you.

The diagram doesn't show how these beliefs translate.

For example, conservatives may believe in physical sex which cannot change. Some think that the sporting issue doesn't matter because they think that sport is unfeminine and shouldn't be encouraged. Trans ideologies also think that the sporting issue doesn't matter, but not because of the physical sex issue.

You basically have layers and layers of outcomes on top of the belief layer, and if you created a diagram to intersect them, you wouldn't have the three ideologies stacked on top of each other - they would be all over the place.

And so there is plenty of space for feminists, or at least people who consider themselves to be feminists, to take up positions that don't seem reason to other feminists.

I agree. I made the original comment at the top of the thread.

https://deadwildroses.com/2019/10/07/handy-venn-diagrams-the-radical-feminist-position-on-gender/

The Trump administration loves gender stereotypes just as much as gender ideology believers love gender stereotypes.

It's so tiring having to repeatedly point out that it's not simply a choice between the misogyny of the right or the misogyny of the left. It's feminist board FFS. Surely our aim is no fucking misogyny at all?

‘One way of doing this is to acknowledge that Trump holds his views but that doesn't mean that we agree with the majority of his other policies.’

I may be wrong but that is EXACTLY what the majority of us on this thread have been doing!!

What is your definition of transphobic? What is your definition of Nazism? JK Rowling has been accused many, many times of being both, yet she is neither, just because people make accusations about you it doesn’t make it true.

I don’t believe anyone is born in the wrong body, I don’t believe that there are any trans children, I don’t believe people can change sex, and I definitely don’t believe that TWAW because they are MEN, am I transphobic?

I don’t want men in women’s spaces, refuges, sports or prisons, I don’t want children to be prescribed life changing and irreversible medication or for ND teenage girls to have their healthy breasts removed, am I transphobic? People call others all sorts of things when they refuse to comply with their wishes, especially women, it’s as old as time and I couldn’t care less what people think.

This is a perfect post. The argument always seems to be we should just give up the fight and return to the loving embrace of the 'progressives'. We are the sane ones here and poll after poll in the UK show that the public, including pluralities of lib dem and labour voters and young voters, agree with us.

Which includes being misrepresented by plenty of so-called feminists. I honestly don't know what the word feminist means any more. I'm definitely not a feminist if it involves falling over backwards to give away women's rights to men and massive safeguarding fails wrt children

So women’s groups should publicly denounce the President while thanking his government for the EOs?

Just in case someone determined to denigrate them with false accusations of political alignment will listen and go ‘oh, right I guess I should stop saying they are aligned with the far right then?’ Has this worked before?

Well, I have asked this over several threads and I don’t seem to have got much of an answer. If any.

There is a small group of people who do like to position themselves as seeming to be willing to issue warnings without constructively offering any workable solution. There may be a number of motivations for this.

I have found it remarkable though that women’s campaign groups should not work with the current government in case the opposition to those groups maliciously uses false accusations of political alignment against them. Is it a lack of understanding how lobby groups work or just a determination that women have to operate differently for some reason?

Who on earth is suggesting that? I'm just acknowledging that there is an issue with being aligned with one of trumps most prominent policies. Doesn't mean we should stop anything. Just something to be aware of if trying to win hearts and minds. It is a barrier to our campaign so needs to be recognized as such and handled.
One way of doing this is to acknowledge that Trump holds his views but that doesn't mean that we agree with the majority of his other policies.

So what is your solution then?

I was just about to say the same thing! Among these criticisms of what we shouldn't be doing when it comes to Trump, I've seen zero suggestions for what we should be doing.

Do we shove "our cause" in a drawer for now and wait until Trump is all over?

Or do we try to explain patiently and repeatedly for the next four years that no, we are not aligned with Trump, and no, thinking that some of the EOs are on the right track is not being a Trump supporter, and yes, we detest pretty much everything else he does, and no, we are not all suddenly right wing or fascists.

Shutting up is not an option.

Seriously, do environmental groups just give up when a certain party is in power, or do those groups operate professionally to enact the changes they want with the government in power at the time?

What about child protection groups? Those fighting poverty groups?

Do any of them get the treatment that women’s and girl’s rights campaigner are getting now? Or do they take the progress they have made and keep going to make damn sure the next leader in power doesn’t reverse that progress?

Or is it just our groups ?

And is that because our groups are campaigning for something some posters want but don’t like to admit that they are associated with campaigning for or even discussing?

So what is your solution then?

Are women’s groups supposed to wait until just the right leader is in power and then ask for consideration at that time!

Or, as throughout history, lobby groups work both with the political party and leadership in power and the opposition to attain their objectives?

This is the government in power for the next four years. Elected in a democratic election in a country that prides itself on its political freedom.

The people who want to denigrate those who campaign for women’s and girl’s rights including single sex spaces, and sports plus those groups campaigning for the protection of children against this medicalisation for gender are going to denigrate those people anyway. But to continue to blame those groups for doing what all other professional and non-professional campaign groups do seems completely back the front. Yet so many people seem to be doing just that.

It’s never been in the power of gender critical feminists to control how we are flagrantly misrepresented by people who support this reality-challenged ideology.

I think it undermines our cause. MAGA types /Trump tend not just be GC but transphobic. This aligns is with hate rather than caring about women.
It also gives strength and credence to many around the other anti feminist view points he holds.

Not high on the list in general but It was argued that it was possibly an important issue for Swing voters. Don’t know if this was just a theory or backed by data.

https://archive.ph/t5yRY

But what about the content? Play the content, not the tone.

That's why "Kamala is for they/them, Trump is for you" was so inspired.

it was an absolutely brilliant bit of political rhetoric. It is up there with Thatcher's "you turn [u-turn] if you want to, this lady's not for turning" for sheer cut through.