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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ChatGPT describes how to butter toast in the style of Judith Butler

82 replies

IwantToRetire · 26/03/2025 17:34

The act of buttering toast is not merely a neutral, mechanical operation but rather a performative enactment of breakfast itself, one that is inscribed within a broader matrix of cultural norms and expectations. To grasp this act fully, we must interrogate the implicit structures that render toast and butter legible as objects within the epistemological framework of morning consumption.

One does not simply butter toast in an autonomous, self-evident manner. Rather, the gesture is citational, reiterating a series of habitualized practices that constitute the normative boundaries of what “buttering” and “toast” mean within the hegemonic discourse of breakfast. The knife, a seemingly benign implement, operates as an extension of the subject, its movements governed by the tacit knowledge of what constitutes an appropriate distribution of butter. But whose butter? Whose toast? And who determines the adequacy of coverage, the sufficiency of spread?

To spread butter is to engage in a spatial-temporal negotiation with the toast’s surface, a surface that, like the body, is neither neutral nor inert but already implicated in the conditions of its own reception. The butter itself, melting into the porous texture, does not merely adhere but interpellates the toast as toast-that-has-been-buttered, a new ontological state that emerges through the process of application.

Yet, this process is neither universal nor without contestation. Alternative subjectivities and resistant practices—margarine, jam, dry toast—gesture toward the instability of breakfast norms, revealing the contingency of what is often taken as a given. In this sense, the act of buttering toast is not merely an individual choice but a site of discursive production, where the subject is both constituted by and constitutive of the structures that govern legibility, taste, and the performative materialization of the morning meal.

(Saw this on facebook and thought I would share as I know how highly FWR values JB's thought process. Apparently there is a whole number of these, eg how to eat a banana in the style of Judith Butler.)

OP posts:
NorthernBogbean · 27/03/2025 00:49

Fabulous. The Butler stuff is giving me Vietnam-style flashbacks.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/03/2025 00:48

I suspect Alan Bennet still bakes in imperial measures. And would never make a scone as ridiculously small as a 10p piece.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2025 00:06

Then I thought we could do with a counterbalance to butler’s buttering so I asked:

Can you describe buttering a piece of toast in the style of a chemistry lab report

Laboratory Report: The Application of Butter to Toast

Objective:
To investigate and analyze the controlled application of butter to a toasted bread substrate, ensuring optimal spreadability and uniform coverage while minimizing structural compromise.

Materials:

  • 1 slice of bread (pre-toasted, medium brown, ~10% moisture retention)
  • 10g salted butter (room temperature, ~21°C ± 1°C)
  • 1 stainless steel butter knife (length: 15 cm, mass: 35g)
  • 1 ceramic plate (control surface)

Methodology:

  1. *Preparation of Substrate:*
The bread sample was subjected to thermal treatment via a domestic toasting apparatus (Model: Dualit 2-Slice, Setting: 4) for approximately 120 seconds, yielding a surface Maillard reaction indicative of optimal crunch-to-softness ratio. The sample was then rested for 30 seconds to allow heat dissipation and mitigate excess butter absorption.
  1. *Butter Sample Preparation:*
The butter, having undergone controlled thermal acclimatization at ambient room temperature, was deemed sufficiently pliable for application. A 10g sample was extracted using a stainless steel knife, ensuring consistent thickness and minimal fragmentation.
  1. *Application Procedure:*
The butter sample was introduced to the toast surface via a single-point deposition at the geometric center. Using a standardized lateral sweeping motion (~30° inclination, 2.5 cm/s velocity), the butter was distributed radially towards the edges. Edge regions received secondary, perpendicular sweeps to ensure full coverage and eliminate excess pooling.
  1. *Observations:*
- Initial contact resulted in a phase transition from solid to semi-liquid state (~30% liquefaction observed within 5s). - The butter exhibited a viscosity gradient, with greater absorption at high-porosity regions and surface pooling in lower-density zones. - The knife encountered intermittent textural resistance due to local topographical inconsistencies (crumb peaks). - Final coverage was estimated at ~95%, with minor butter residuals on the knife, indicating effective material deposition.

Conclusion:
The experiment successfully demonstrated the application of butter to toast with minimal structural disruption and optimal spreadability. Recommendations for future studies include the impact of pre-buttering techniques, variable butter fat percentages, and knife-heating methodologies on spread efficiency.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2025 23:53

SinnerBoy · 26/03/2025 21:19

I think the best one on that thread was the Harold Pinter one act play.

As I don't know know how to do it, I'd love to see an Alan Bennet version, hopefully with a sniping row about the proper pronunciation of scone...

I had a couple of bashes, forgot about the pronunciation the first time

Can you write instructions for making cheese scones in the style of the playwright Alan Bennett

ChatGPT said:

Cheese Scones, an Alan Bennett Recipe
(Or, A Modest Afternoon Diversion with Butter and Regret)
You’ll want the oven on first—200 degrees Celsius, gas mark six if you’ve not yet succumbed to one of those sleek modern affairs with buttons that light up in a rather knowing way.
Now, in a bowl of unassuming character (perhaps one that’s seen better days, or still bears a smear of jam from last week’s Victoria sponge), sift together 225 grams of self-raising flour with a pinch of salt. Not too much, mind, just enough to remind you of Auntie Jean’s brisk approach to seasoning.
Rub in 50 grams of butter, using your fingertips as if you were half-heartedly counting out change at the Post Office. It should resemble breadcrumbs—albeit the sort that, if found in the cutlery drawer, would prompt a brief but heartfelt sigh.
Grate 100 grams of mature cheddar, the sort that bites back a little but wouldn’t cause a scandal at the church social. Stir it in with a heavy sense of purpose.
Make a well in the centre (as one makes space in the back of a cupboard for a well-meaning but impractical gift from a relative) and pour in 150 millilitres of milk. Stir gently, bringing it together as though coaxing a reluctant Labrador in from the rain.
Turn it onto a lightly floured surface, pat it down—none of this rolling pin business, just a firm but fair hand. Cut into rounds, roughly the size of an old ten-pence piece, though obviously thicker, and place on a baking tray lined with parchment. If feeling daring, brush the tops with a little extra milk.
Bake for 12-15 minutes, until golden, puffed up slightly, and possessing an air of quiet satisfaction.
Serve warm, preferably with butter, and eaten in a kitchen where the radio drones on about things that used to cost a fraction of what they do now.
Best enjoyed in silence, or with a murmured, "Well, that’ll do."

4o
You said:

Good attempt though not sure you’ve quite caught his tone. Can you include some gentle sniping on the correct pronunciation of the word ‘scone’.

ChatGPT said:

Cheese Scones (or, A Minor Domestic Tragedy in One Act)
(A recipe by Alan Bennett, in which nothing truly awful happens, yet disappointment lingers like the smell of boiled cabbage in a church hall.)
First, preheat the oven to 200 degrees Celsius (Gas Mark 6, for those still clinging to the reassuring certainty of a dial). This gives you time to reflect on how, despite your best efforts, the kitchen remains slightly sticky.
Take 225 grams of self-raising flour and sift it into a bowl. This will seem unnecessary, but one must maintain standards, even in a world where people wear jeans to funerals. Add a pinch of salt—just enough to remind you that life is, if nothing else, a series of small disappointments.
Now, rub in 50 grams of butter using your fingertips. This should be done briskly, in the manner of someone pretending they don’t resent having to make small talk with a neighbour in the queue at the Post Office. The mixture should resemble breadcrumbs—though, let’s be honest, they’ll be the sort of uneven, slightly disappointing breadcrumbs that suggest your heart isn’t really in it.
Grate 100 grams of mature cheddar. Not the sort that comes pre-grated in a bag, for we are not animals. Stir it into the flour mixture with the resigned air of someone realising they’ve once again forgotten to buy decent tea bags.
Make a well in the centre and pour in 150 millilitres of milk. Mix together with a butter knife—none of this modern silicone nonsense—until it forms a dough. Turn it onto a lightly floured surface and gently pat it down to about an inch thick. Do not, under any circumstances, roll it out with a rolling pin, unless you wish to be silently judged by the ghosts of generations past.
Cut out rounds with a cutter, or if you can’t be bothered to look for it, a drinking glass will do. Place them on a baking tray lined with parchment and, if feeling ambitious, brush the tops with a little milk.
Bake for 12-15 minutes, or until golden and ever so slightly smug-looking. They should be left to cool slightly, but not so long that they become emblematic of missed opportunities.
Serve warm, ideally with butter and a little self-recrimination. At this point, someone will invariably attempt to start an argument about whether it’s pronounced ‘scone’ to rhyme with ‘gone’ or ‘scone’ to rhyme with ‘bone.’ The correct pronunciation, of course, is ‘scone,’ as in ‘what’s gone is gone,’ which, if you think about it, is rather poignant.
Eat in silence, or with the quiet, shared knowledge that, however they are pronounced, they are always slightly better in someone else’s house.

murasaki · 26/03/2025 23:25

I read both the toast version and what she wrote to DP. He pronounced both bullshit, but was more interested in the toast.

He knows full well who she is as her election as a fellow of my previous employers contributed to me leaving.

The phrase used was 'ah, that mad one again?'

TempestTost · 26/03/2025 22:11

MarieDeGournay · 26/03/2025 18:44

I ran that para through Copilot [the first time I've ever used it!]:

This passage discusses a theoretical shift in understanding social and power relations. It moves from a structuralist perspective, where capital is seen as uniformly shaping social relations, to a hegemonic perspective, where power is seen as dynamic—shaped by repetition, convergence, and rearticulation. This shift emphasizes temporality and moves away from Althusserian structural totalities, focusing instead on the contingent and flexible nature of power. Hegemony is reimagined as tied to specific, ever-changing strategies and sites where power is redefined. It highlights the evolving and fluid nature of social and structural dynamics.

Now why didn't you say that in the first place, Judith Butler?Grin

Because when it's put like that it's clear it's not that interesting.

NoviceVillager · 26/03/2025 21:49

Brilliant, that is hilarious

SinnerBoy · 26/03/2025 21:19

I think the best one on that thread was the Harold Pinter one act play.

As I don't know know how to do it, I'd love to see an Alan Bennet version, hopefully with a sniping row about the proper pronunciation of scone...

JanesLittleGirl · 26/03/2025 20:30

JustSpeculation · 26/03/2025 18:12

I don't think it's very accurate. It's too easily understood and the sentences are too short (some paragraphs even have more than one sentence.). Compare the famous, prize-winning:

The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Edited to rearticulate the punctuation in an affordance of obsequious surrender to the hegemonic characterised by an imposition of Onionsian theory in deference to normative practice.

Edited

Bloody hell! Has she been injected with a record player needle?

lcakethereforeIam · 26/03/2025 20:11

The AI overlooked the symbolic emasculation in the act of a woman eating a banana burble burble chewed and swallowed 🍌

IwantToRetire · 26/03/2025 20:04

I am very distrubed now by 2 things.

I got chatGPT to describe sex based rights in the manner of JB and it almost made sense why she would say we shouldn't accept there is such a thing ... help!

And then I have found out that what I thought was a whole new online humour escapism started 3 years ago. I am always out of the virtual loop. Sad

OP posts:
murasaki · 26/03/2025 19:59

This has made me laugh a lot. It's textbook Butler.

IwantToRetire · 26/03/2025 19:49

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2025 19:42

Elsewhere someone mentioned butlerian instructions for making cheese scones but I couldn’t find a link to it.

This is on X so not sure if you can see it:

https://x.com/i/grok/share/BZwgpUSsev0zIZyAEUzOVC4aq

Its very long so not sure about copying it all, as there is not only the first recipe but a second version when quantities are not specified.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2025 19:42

Elsewhere someone mentioned butlerian instructions for making cheese scones but I couldn’t find a link to it.

MarieDeGournay · 26/03/2025 19:33

If 'gender' is replaced by 'toast' or 'a banana', it starts to become somewhat clearer to me. Should I be worried?Confused

Maybe the problem is that JB writes about something as vague and ill-defined and waffly as gender, so the style is vague and ill-defined and waffly too.

As Kobayashi Issa put it:
The man pulling radishes
Pointed the way
With a radish.

IwantToRetire · 26/03/2025 19:26

How would Judith Butler describe eating a banana

Judith Butler, renowned for her theory of gender performativity, might approach the act of eating a banana as a complex interplay of cultural norms, gender identities, and bodily performances. In Butler's framework, gender is not an innate quality but a series of actions and behaviors that are socially constructed and repeatedly enacted. Therefore, the way one eats a banana—whether casually, sensually, or hurriedly—can convey and challenge societal expectations of gender roles.

Moreover, the banana itself carries rich symbolic weight. In art and culture, it has been used to explore themes of sexuality, foreignness, and desire. For instance, Natalia LL's 1973 video "Consumer Art" features a woman eating a banana in a suggestive manner, prompting discussions about the fruit's phallic symbolism and its association with luxury and taboo under Soviet Communism.

Therefore, from a Butlerian perspective, eating a banana transcends a simple act of consumption; it becomes a site where gender identities are performed, cultural meanings are negotiated, and societal norms are both reinforced and subverted.

OP posts:
NameChangedOfc · 26/03/2025 19:19

KnitFastDieWarm · 26/03/2025 17:39

This is both superb and horribly accurate (I say this as someone who has multiple
humanities degrees - I don’t think it’s a coincidence that i now work on plain language and accessibility 😁)

Brilliant! We're both in the same boat 😁

IwantToRetire · 26/03/2025 19:00

There is part of me that thinks maybe JB will get a little glow from knowing this is going on.

But on the other hand it is good to show that not everyone bows down to the verbage vomiting that make it seem a good purgative might be the solution to the source.

But as a PP said, it probably is too simple, and the reality is that 99.9% of those who start to try and read JB just give up so dont even get much of a response to these parodies as (luckily for them) their brains have never taken in any of the relentless nothingness.

Seriously of what use is JB to the real world. But if it gets a safe sinecure in a University it sort of sums up the purpose of the establishment and the person.

OP posts:
CranfordScones · 26/03/2025 18:59

This style of opaque academic drivel was unmasked years ago by Alan Sokal's hoax. Presumably it persists because its purveyors have nothing to say, or their ideas are so simple that they need to be dressed up in intellectual pretence. It just provides grist for those who argue that the humanities aren't worth preserving.

lcakethereforeIam · 26/03/2025 18:48

Nope. I think i almost understand it but it still reads like bollocks. I feel a little sorry for the AI though.

MarieDeGournay · 26/03/2025 18:44

JustSpeculation · 26/03/2025 18:12

I don't think it's very accurate. It's too easily understood and the sentences are too short (some paragraphs even have more than one sentence.). Compare the famous, prize-winning:

The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Edited to rearticulate the punctuation in an affordance of obsequious surrender to the hegemonic characterised by an imposition of Onionsian theory in deference to normative practice.

Edited

I ran that para through Copilot [the first time I've ever used it!]:

This passage discusses a theoretical shift in understanding social and power relations. It moves from a structuralist perspective, where capital is seen as uniformly shaping social relations, to a hegemonic perspective, where power is seen as dynamic—shaped by repetition, convergence, and rearticulation. This shift emphasizes temporality and moves away from Althusserian structural totalities, focusing instead on the contingent and flexible nature of power. Hegemony is reimagined as tied to specific, ever-changing strategies and sites where power is redefined. It highlights the evolving and fluid nature of social and structural dynamics.

Now why didn't you say that in the first place, Judith Butler?Grin

Britinme · 26/03/2025 18:25

I love that! Who'd have suspected AI of having a sense of humour? Or (dreadful thought) was it being serious?

JustSpeculation · 26/03/2025 18:23

@InWithThePlums The aim is to establish and maintain a reputation as "good at theory".

InWithThePlums · 26/03/2025 18:20

JustSpeculation · 26/03/2025 18:12

I don't think it's very accurate. It's too easily understood and the sentences are too short (some paragraphs even have more than one sentence.). Compare the famous, prize-winning:

The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Edited to rearticulate the punctuation in an affordance of obsequious surrender to the hegemonic characterised by an imposition of Onionsian theory in deference to normative practice.

Edited

I gave up after the first line! Was that the aim do we think?

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