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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ChatGPT describes how to butter toast in the style of Judith Butler

82 replies

IwantToRetire · 26/03/2025 17:34

The act of buttering toast is not merely a neutral, mechanical operation but rather a performative enactment of breakfast itself, one that is inscribed within a broader matrix of cultural norms and expectations. To grasp this act fully, we must interrogate the implicit structures that render toast and butter legible as objects within the epistemological framework of morning consumption.

One does not simply butter toast in an autonomous, self-evident manner. Rather, the gesture is citational, reiterating a series of habitualized practices that constitute the normative boundaries of what “buttering” and “toast” mean within the hegemonic discourse of breakfast. The knife, a seemingly benign implement, operates as an extension of the subject, its movements governed by the tacit knowledge of what constitutes an appropriate distribution of butter. But whose butter? Whose toast? And who determines the adequacy of coverage, the sufficiency of spread?

To spread butter is to engage in a spatial-temporal negotiation with the toast’s surface, a surface that, like the body, is neither neutral nor inert but already implicated in the conditions of its own reception. The butter itself, melting into the porous texture, does not merely adhere but interpellates the toast as toast-that-has-been-buttered, a new ontological state that emerges through the process of application.

Yet, this process is neither universal nor without contestation. Alternative subjectivities and resistant practices—margarine, jam, dry toast—gesture toward the instability of breakfast norms, revealing the contingency of what is often taken as a given. In this sense, the act of buttering toast is not merely an individual choice but a site of discursive production, where the subject is both constituted by and constitutive of the structures that govern legibility, taste, and the performative materialization of the morning meal.

(Saw this on facebook and thought I would share as I know how highly FWR values JB's thought process. Apparently there is a whole number of these, eg how to eat a banana in the style of Judith Butler.)

OP posts:
EdithStourton · 28/03/2025 07:31

IwantToRetire · 28/03/2025 00:45

It was as though ChatGPT had FWR through a nice clean wash.

After all we are the "Feminists' Working Roundtable" where not doubt after our discussions we do some good works on the way home to DH, and resume our ideal home exhibition lifes.

Grin

With the bio detergent at 90C removing all those nasty staining swear words, and a good dose of fabric softener at the end?

FWR with the bolshiness and sharp edges reduced by an order of magnitude?

Nothing like as much fun!

TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged · 28/03/2025 01:35

JustSpeculation · 26/03/2025 18:12

I don't think it's very accurate. It's too easily understood and the sentences are too short (some paragraphs even have more than one sentence.). Compare the famous, prize-winning:

The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Edited to rearticulate the punctuation in an affordance of obsequious surrender to the hegemonic characterised by an imposition of Onionsian theory in deference to normative practice.

Edited

That paragraph that identifies as a sentence intersects with the thread about why people believe TWAW. The pomo side of it thinks if you keep saying the words that's disruptive enough to reshape reality. I hope, @JustSpeculation you don't mind me reposting it over on that thread, too?

IwantToRetire · 28/03/2025 00:45

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/03/2025 23:11

Hmm. Not sure about point 4. There should be rather more calling them fucking idiots and asking why women are once again expected to sort out men's problems.

It was as though ChatGPT had FWR through a nice clean wash.

After all we are the "Feminists' Working Roundtable" where not doubt after our discussions we do some good works on the way home to DH, and resume our ideal home exhibition lifes.

Grin
OP posts:
NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/03/2025 23:11

Hmm. Not sure about point 4. There should be rather more calling them fucking idiots and asking why women are once again expected to sort out men's problems.

Britinme · 27/03/2025 19:15

Yep. Nailed it.

IwantToRetire · 27/03/2025 18:17

How would FWR on mumsnet discuss incels

On FWR (Feminists' Working Roundtable) on Mumsnet, discussions about incels would likely center around a feminist perspective. FWR is a space for women to discuss issues related to feminism, gender, and social justice, so conversations around incels would probably take a critical approach. Here's how such a discussion might unfold:

  1. Critique of Incel Ideology: FWR members would likely critique the misogynistic aspects of the incel (involuntary celibate) community, which often blames women for their lack of romantic or sexual success. The discussion would point out how incels perpetuate harmful stereotypes about women, objectify them, and hold them responsible for their personal struggles.
  2. Focus on Toxic Masculinity: Many posts might focus on how the incel community reflects broader issues of toxic masculinity, where men are expected to conform to rigid standards of hyper-masculinity and sexual entitlement. The conversation might emphasize the harmful effects of these pressures on men’s mental health, as well as on their relationships with women.
  3. Gender Dynamics: There would likely be a focus on how the dynamics of gender power and control play out within the incel movement. Members would discuss how incels’ attitudes often stem from a sense of entitlement to women’s time, affection, and bodies, and how this reflects a broader societal issue where men are socialized to expect women to fulfill certain roles.
  4. Empathy and Solutions: Some threads might explore how to approach individuals who identify as incels in a more empathetic way, acknowledging that many of these men might be struggling with loneliness or mental health issues. There could be discussion on how society, including feminism, can help reframe conversations around relationships, rejection, and emotional well-being for everyone.
  5. Violence and Radicalization: A serious part of the conversation would likely address the potential for incel ideology to escalate into real-world violence. Feminists on FWR may express concern over incels who advocate for violence against women and discuss how to prevent this kind of radicalization. There could be calls for education, better mental health resources for men, and more focus on challenging harmful online communities.
  6. Raising Awareness: Feminists would probably discuss how to raise awareness about the dangers of incel culture, especially for young men who may be drawn into it. The emphasis would likely be on creating healthier, more positive spaces for men to address their frustrations and find support.

Overall, FWR's discussion would likely combine criticism of incel culture with compassion for those affected by it, all while reinforcing feminist values of equality, respect, and non-violence.

OP posts:
NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/03/2025 15:47

Thank you- I was trying to remember what that was called.

Kucinghitam · 27/03/2025 15:42

thirdfiddle · 27/03/2025 14:48

Well well, I had not flagged sociology departments as the first to be displaced by AI.

Long before "artificial intelligence" as we know it, they became defunct in 1996 thanks to the Postmodernism Generator. Basically, no "intelligence" was required Grin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism_Generator

Postmodernism Generator - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism_Generator

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/03/2025 15:23

Surely they're the logical first to fall - reams of incomprehensible, unfalsifiable nonsense have been the bedrock of many a sociology career.

thirdfiddle · 27/03/2025 14:48

Well well, I had not flagged sociology departments as the first to be displaced by AI.

MarieDeGournay · 27/03/2025 14:28

SinnerBoy · 27/03/2025 14:05

With, or baht 'at?

With, I reckon, if it's a moist day, otherwise baht 'at so it dun't ruin 'air-do😄

SinnerBoy · 27/03/2025 14:05

With, or baht 'at?

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2025 14:03

MarieDeGournay · 27/03/2025 10:00

Hmmm. I haven't panicked much about AI taking over the world and destroying humanity ['meh, it probably won't, and humanity isn't all that great anyway..'] but I am proper disturbed by the fact that ChatGPT can 'do' Alan Bennett so well.

It's time to panic. No-one and nothing is safe from AI. Run for the hills - for all the good that will do you, as we are all doomed anyway, doomed I say.. well when I say 'all', we're not all as doomed as that poor Alan Bennett chap who is now completely redundant.
Grin

Ooh no, a nice stroll up Ilkley Moor on a moist Sunday afternoon will set you right.

lcakethereforeIam · 27/03/2025 13:01

There's always something janky about AI generated stuff, a 10p sized scone for example or something Judith Butler inspired that's actually readable.

EdithStourton · 27/03/2025 12:24

That's hilarious. It reminds me slightly of 'How many historians does it take to change a lightbulb?'

@ErrolTheDragon 'ever so slightly smug-looking' exactly describes a good scone.

fromorbit · 27/03/2025 12:14

Anyone else worried Butler’s advocacy of trans-positive views taints and discredits them? :)

YourAmplePlumPoster · 27/03/2025 12:14

🤣😂

Britinme · 27/03/2025 12:08

I am now wondering if @IHeartHalloumiis a poster with a degree in sociology or whether ChatGPT has signed up to Mumsnet as part of its training.

IHeartHalloumi · 27/03/2025 10:44

Toast is an inherently unstable context that had shifted in both it's socioeconomics accessibility and role in the cultural zeitgeist over the millenia. Once a high status product requiring careful hand crafting with toast fork over open fire, toast is now open to all - which has clearly contributed to it's down grading through the desirability scale of breakfast goods. The failure of toast to achieve instagram worthy status is noteworthy.

One must consider the role of the toaster in trans-Atlantic relations, particularly in the context of the close adherence to the kettle - often seen in matching garb in the UK, in what is arguably a faux-heteronormative nod to traditional marital roles.

When is butter not butter? The act of keeping butter in the refrigerator, at an unnaturally low temperature simultaneously prolongs it's life whilst denying the maternal bond between cow & calf, an orphaning acted out in the difficulty in spreading cold butter

borntobequiet · 27/03/2025 10:19

Britinme · 26/03/2025 18:25

I love that! Who'd have suspected AI of having a sense of humour? Or (dreadful thought) was it being serious?

I think we need an AI take on whether AI has a sense of humour. Unfortunately I have stuff to do, or I’d ask it.

MarieDeGournay · 27/03/2025 10:00

Hmmm. I haven't panicked much about AI taking over the world and destroying humanity ['meh, it probably won't, and humanity isn't all that great anyway..'] but I am proper disturbed by the fact that ChatGPT can 'do' Alan Bennett so well.

It's time to panic. No-one and nothing is safe from AI. Run for the hills - for all the good that will do you, as we are all doomed anyway, doomed I say.. well when I say 'all', we're not all as doomed as that poor Alan Bennett chap who is now completely redundant.
Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2025 08:26

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/03/2025 00:48

I suspect Alan Bennet still bakes in imperial measures. And would never make a scone as ridiculously small as a 10p piece.

Well yes, and whoever would call a florin or two bob an ‘old 10p’?

SinnerBoy · 27/03/2025 06:29

ErrolTheDragon · Yesterday 23:53

Thanks for that! My favourite was the second one and like Binturong, I think he'd use ounces...

Britinme · 27/03/2025 01:29

These are jewels.

IwantToRetire · 27/03/2025 01:12

Or, A Modest Afternoon Diversion with Butter and Regret

Flowers
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