University of Sussex fined £585,000 by Office for Students

A device to see into people's souls? Oh, wait, Layla Moran already has one.

Such a weird project! "Others commented that they had no issue with the LGBTQ+ focus but felt that “the issues facing the LGBTQ+ community” are “not exactly something that can be solved with electromechanical design”.

Quite. What issues are there? I guess prejudice and lack of understanding, perhaps aggression, discrimination in jobs or housing. What on earth can the engineering students come up with for those?

Yes, I was wondering about something that could help with post-operative care or to help someone who is disabled and then paint it in the trans colours.

An auto-dilator might be going a bit far!

PMSL

A device to search, locate and remove the T from LGBT wherever it appears

Problem is that a lot of the things I can think of have already been invented.

For example, a device that could get the creases out of a "progress" pride flag.

Maybe it would need to be some sort of multifunction gizmo.

Anything they want then paint it pink?

A humanoid robot with a head tilt?

Okay, I'm totally stumped.

"It requires students to research and identify challenges facing the LGBTQ+ community, then design, prototype and test an electromechanical product that can survive “extreme conditions” to address these challenges."

I can't think of anything that wouldn't be facetious, or at the very least not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

That’s fascinating.

Maybe it's a last-ditch kitchen sink desperate action. I mean, Sussex will now have in from all sides.

• TRSOH will be "literally" genocided because of the publicity and that there is no longer a guaranteed sacred caste magic words status at Sussex and must flee to more protective institutions.
• TWSOH were revolted by the bullying of Kathleen Stock in the first place and are now goggle-eyed at the VC's belligerent and mendacious reaction.
• Lots of normal people who might not have noticed the previous ructions are now learning that a university already in financial trouble has got a massive fine (which was already reduced from what it could have been) is planning to dig a deeper hole spend an unknown amount of their fee income on a contest of uncertain outcome but certain vast expense.

My DC are almost at university age. We have already begun by discounting any universities that are in financial trouble. As university academics ourselves, we already know that even in less dire institutions, the fees in fact do not cover the cost of delivering many of the courses, leading to all manner of desperate money-saving measures on staff and background services. We will 100% be avoiding any university that looks like spending DC's fees on this sort of performative virtue-signalling legal posturing.

No, it's a fine, payable to the OfS. It's not a payout to Kathleen.

I’m just hearing about this on Times radio. I haven’t really followed it lately.

Does she get that payout? Or is it just a fine to somewhere else.

I’d love her to get a decent payout

Last year there was a big controversy at UCL, which had set engineering students a task to design something for the LGBT+ It caused huge upset as so many of the students were from conservative overseas countries, and many of the students didn't want or feel able to take part. Embassies were consulted, UCL had to offer an alternative, LGBT+ campaigners were furious.....Looks like UCL need the overseas students so they listened.

roarnews.co.uk/2024/lgbtq-project-controversy-engineering-students-complain-to-department/

"Today I stuck up for it and asked Ministers to look at how the regulator handled this, and the risks to equalities on other campuses"

It's the policies that are causing 'the risk to equalities on other campuses'.

This shouldn't be a difficult concept.

The Green party are a massive disappointment, episode 43,296:

https://x.com/sianberry/status/1905376991307858214

"The University of Sussex is a very special part of Brighton, facing a huge, disproportionate fine from the Office for Students. Today I stuck up for it and asked Ministers to look at how the regulator handled this, and the risks to equalities on other campuses"

They are already losing lucrative international students because of separate issues around visas, and having this story all over the news at a time of year when people might be considering options for their DC might not help them get UK students rushing to sign up either!

Universities are a business. I am not sure this is the best business model to pursue - it seems very personal from the VC. The damage to the university and the impact on whether children and their parents chose Sussex as the place to spend their money is at stake. I would want to draw a line under it. People like to stick their own money into places of stability, longevity and into one that benefits them (one that makes their children employable afterwards). You google Sussex Uni and this is the first thing that comes up. It’s going to keep on coming up as the VC pursues it. What does the endpoint look like?
In the meantime what type of atmosphere and what type of student will their future cohorts be?

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 11:18

I don’t think there was a tribunal, which they would undoubtedly have lost. ISTR she got an undisclosed settlement.

Thanks - I was looking up the result just now and couldn't find it and was wondered why. Now I know!

It's a quasi-religious belief that people have a 'soul' that is their inner identity. It's completely subjective. There are no blood tests, no scans, no psychological tests or anything that can demonstrate the existence of this mythical 'gender identity'.

As with any religious belief those who don't believe have the freedom to dispute & mock that belief within the confines of the EA2010. Those promoting this religion have no right to impose their beliefs on others & must also work within the confines of the EA2010.

Staff members should have been disciplined and some students should have been kicked out if they continued following a warning.

Yes that is an interesting statement - Doc Stock left in 2021, VC Roseneil was appointed in 2022 - I know a week is a long time in politics, but is a year such a long time in higher education??

'K wasn't supported' is, as SinnerBoy suggests, very passive.

Sussex could have 'supported' KS till the cows came home, 'supporting' her could have been paying for the security systems in her home, or for close protection as she walked around her own campus, but what was needed was action against her persecutors, and action to remove the policies which curbed her right to academic freedom.

The uni could have 'supported' Doc Stock by buying her an armoured personnel carrier to commute to work and move safely around the campus - there you go, KS is fully supported, job done, no regrets.

Statements full of things like regrets, outrage, motivations, suspicions, victimisation, bias, etc., are missing the point about what actually happened.

I agree. The university should have made it clear at the time that harassment and threats to staff and students wouldn’t be tolerated. And no, people disagreeing with your ideology and advocating for other groups isn’t “harassment” by default.

This whole debate is about a tipping point regarding what’s reasonable. Whether it’s policies informing the curriculum or how a member of staff is treated. Once an ideology takes hold and is backed by vociferous nasty people, there is a problem. Any employer can deal with such behaviour though. They discipline the students and staff. Other employers would not tolerate this. If it’s gross misconduct, it’s a sacking offence if found “guilty”. We need to bring all of this back to decent sensible and legal employment policies and also what’s expected of students. They don’t have unfettered rights of protest or bullying.

I can see free speech can be an issue but again there’s a tipping point when it turns into hate. It goes too far. Sussex just sat by and let factions do what they wanted and then altered their teaching policies to reflect this minority. I might be wrong but I suspect Oxford and Cambridge haven’t.

What lecturer thinks Sussex is a good employer now? What reasonable person thinks these nasty students should have been allowed to get away with this unchallenged? We need to have universities that can understand where the tipping point is and actually understand there is employment and other legislation to deal with unacceptable behaviour. Instead they condoned it.

I don’t think there was a tribunal, which they would undoubtedly have lost. ISTR she got an undisclosed settlement.

Roseneil said: “Obviously she left long before I arrived but it is deeply regrettable that Kathleen [Stock] wasn’t supported to the extent that she felt able to stay working at Sussex. I regret that.”

Well, that's an unusual way of saying:

"We sat back and did nothing, as Dr. Stock was bullied, harassed and subject to threats of violence. In fact, some faculty members were instrumental in carrying out these illegal actions. We lost big time at her Employment Tribunal, as we didn't have a leg to stand on."