Review "Six Conversations we're Scared to have"

To misquote the late Queen: "Interpretations may vary."

Sorry posted on wrong thread...

Does it, aye?

And yet, Onetime, if you make the effort (heaven forbid) to read the Supreme Court judgement, it actually protects lesbians and gay men. Because guess what? Trans "rights" are directly in conflict with those lesbians.

If you haven't got the capacity to read the judgement, read Denis Kavanagh' blogpost:

https://dennisnoelkavanagh.substack.com/p/in-praise-of-the-lesbian-interveners

Her book is excellent and tackles issues related to transgender identity, gender neutral/inclusive language, and feminism much more intelligently and compassionately than anyone on here. She take a long view to look back at moments in feminist history when lesbians were ostracised by other feminists and caricatured as threatening in much the same way trans people are today.

Yes and it’s scary that so many people are believing what they see on social media in that way. If someone is being slagged off you should surely by now realise that there are a lot of extreme beliefs, partisan feuds and lies flying around and that in itself doesn’t tell you much.

It reminds of the joyous Tweet from someone who was condemning JKR for saying 'awful things about trans people'.

Someone responded: Can you point us to some of the awful things? I'd love to read them.

They said: I don't know what she said, but people wouldn't be criticising her for nothing!

You're spot on, @WhatterySquash

It's such black and white thinking. Which is what toddlers do.

@RoyalCorgi DFW wants to get Elizabeth Taylor a pardon from the Australian government.

It's more of this ultra-simple thinking/progressive beliefs by numbers that typifies adherents of "woke". Abortion must be great because it's the opposite of what nasty conservative religious old pro-lifers want. No grey areas, no questions, you've been told feminism means being pro-abortion so no need to think things through yourself or take RL situations into account.

Same with trans - trans woman = automatically wonderful, stunning and brave, has women's best interests at heart, anyone who could possibly question that is a bigot/not a real feminist. Because, erm, someone told me that's what I'm meant to think and I got no further.

Not saying these two things are the same, but it's the same "won't think about that, just parrot what I think I'm supposed to think in order to be a good person".

I remember that episode. It was really distasteful, because she treated this abortionist - who was responsible for the death of two women - as some kind of feminist hero, as opposed to a mercenary woman who was simply exploiting other women's misery by charging them a fortune for unsafe abortions.

DFW really grates on me. For starters: she had Mridul Wadhwa on her poxy podcast.
No self respecting feminist would give him the time of day.

I've never listened to her podcast, but she was on an episode of Lucy Worsley's Lady Killers podcast about an Australian abortionist.

And DWF referred to 'people' and 'parent', instead of women, and mother.

She ain't no feminist, bruv.

She’s summarised EXACTLY what I thought of it. I don’t always agree with SD but she’s completely nailed it here 🔥 DFW is insufferably contemptible.

She appears to be the very definition of a puddle: both wet and shallow.

Those who “genuinely care” about women in prison should be “campaigning to ensure that almost all women (including trans women) never see the inside of a prison”.

I can see no circumstances under which that might be abused by men who might wish to escape incarceration. No loophole for misuse at all, given the need for nothing but an assertion. (BRB. I have been sent opportunities to invest in magic beans 🫘 and a historical bridge. )

Yes, it's scunnering.

Most women shouldn't be in prison because most women's crimes are not damaging to other people.

'The 2007 Corston report concluded that the issues that lead women to offend are more likely to be addressed in the community using casework, support and treatment. It was noted that prison is unlikely to have any value as a deterrence, recognising that the vast majority of women do not commit crime and, of those that do, only a tiny minority commit crimes of violence.'

https://hmiprobation.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/our-research/evidence-base-probation-service/specific-sub-groups/women/

The same cannot be said of the population of males who identify as trans in the prison system:

'Almost two thirds of transgender prisoners who identify as female are convicted sex offenders'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/31/almost-two-thirds-of-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders/

Authoritarian and puritan, absolutely. Though she'd say she was a feminist!

Yes, and the worst thing is that if I really don't want her to be my MS for the next five years I'll have to vote Conservative or Reform (whichever is most likely to be most popular) to keep her out. And try and persuade others to do the same. All because Starmer and co won't define 'woman' as 'adult human female.'

It's impossible to have a rational conversation with them. They're like the transactivists we all know, pious and judgmental and finger-pointing and intent on shutting women up by shaming and chilling.

And I find it so odd that people like this can't reflect on what they're doing and why - if they refuse to listen to rational explanations, evidence of harm, or even just honest questions - why do they think they're right? It must come from somewhere but even they can't explain it.

But such is the nature of authoritarianism and puritanism I suppose. It's just maddening that so much harm is being done, sensible, rational and evidence-aware people are trying to reverse and change it, and people like this are standing in the way because they're convinced of a moral righteousness they can't even defend.

It's impossible to have a rational conversation with them. They're like the transactivists we all know, pious and judgmental and finger-pointing and intent on shutting women up by shaming and chilling. I and a couple of other brave women have tried pointing out the polls and trying to sound the alarm. I think many people do see the problem but they're silenced by the fear of being denounced.

I joined the Labour Party a few years ago to try and reform from within. Now I see that the whole Labour system is set up to discourage dissent. Which makes sense. So almost the only people who are actively, regularly involved are people prepared to go along with things and follow the Rule Book (there is a Rule Book and it is regularly invoked). My only power now is to do everything I can to stop this woman from being elected as my Senedd member in next year's elections.

(And I’m strongly in favour of prison reform and don’t think most female prisoners should be there - but come ooooooon!)

“Ensure that almost all women (including trans women) never see the inside of a prison”

To be unable to see what could possibly go wrong with that policy, especially when combined with self-ID, you really do have to be quite astonishingly daft.

We already have multiple obvious cases of male offenders suddenly announcing they’re women after the crime and before the trial. If the policy was that women shouldn’t be imprisoned and that includes TW, I wonder if this phenomenon might possibly increase?

<thunk>

Forget which prisons we put trans women in: Frances-White wants us (whoever “we” are) to “challenge our assumption on the idea of prisons existing’. Those who “genuinely care” about women in prison should be “campaigning to ensure that almost all women (including trans women) never see the inside of a prison”.

What a load of bollocks. I’m very happy that the trans women in prison are in there, because they deserve to be.

Welsh Labour's failed to tackle these ideological zealots and it'll reap the whirlwind at the next election.

Have they even seen the polling? Or do they think in their inward facing bubble that they are right and the pollsters and the population are wrong?

I attended my local Labour Party Women's Branch meeting on Friday. We had a discussion about the need for the party to accurately define what a woman is in the light of Alice Sullivan's report on the need for accurate sex-based data. Two women stood up and said it was disgusting that we should even think of discussing this in a Labour Party meeting. One of them had a rant about her non-binary daughter and all her trans friends and how we would eradicate them. She was supporeded by a Labour councillor who finger-pointed at the 17-or so of us in the room and told us that we should be ashamed of ourselves and must think about the poor trans children. This was in response to a perfectly rational and polite debate about the need to obtain accurate sex-based data for local and national planning purposes and as a truthful reflection of reality. Both the pious, shaming women (who left the meeting after they'd had their say) are standing for the Welsh Senedd elections next year. Welsh Labour's failed to tackle these ideological zealots and it'll reap the whirlwind at the next election.