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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Division of State and Church in respect to gender

112 replies

ThisPinkWyvern · 15/03/2025 09:28

Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Read full chapter is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gospel of Thomas, Saying 22

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

I am not interested in your answer to the question of whether you believe the above two passages support or do not support being non-binary or transgender. People will always disagree over how to interpret religious texts.

Many non-binary and transgender individuals do however consider how they identify their gender , to be an expression of their religious/ spiritual beliefs.The above two passages are just two examples from Christian religious texts that can be interpreted as non-binary and transgender identities being expressions of religious/ spiritual teachings.

My question therefore is:

Does defining gender as having to be either male or female under law therefore violate the separation of church and state?

OP posts:
DeanElderberry · 15/03/2025 10:56

Re-iterating that 'the Gospel of Thomas' was written in the early centuries AD by someone interested in Jesus, but was never part of the Christian scriptural canon for any church, and was unknown until a few ancient scraps were discovered in 1945.

I wouldn't like @ThisPinkWyvern to confuse anyone by making misleading statements.

HelenaWaiting · 15/03/2025 10:38

Peregrina · 15/03/2025 10:03

Can we report this post for being vexatious?

No, but you can report it if you think it's for research.

FlowchartRequired · 15/03/2025 10:34

Oh yay... another drop and run thread by Pink. 🤐

Good luck with the screenshots Pink.🍀

DeanElderberry · 15/03/2025 10:10

Paul is talking about the unity between Christians overcoming divisions. In another letter he directs a runaway Christian slave to return to his Christian master knowing that he (the runaway) will be treated as a brother in Christ.

As always with Paul's letters, I wish I could read the letter he was replying to, and the one he got back in return to his.

What the 'Gospel of Thomas' means, and when it dates from, has been a matter of speculation since it was discovered 80 years ago.

The Bible (obviously) never mentions gender, and reflects the real world, where there are two sexes, but I suspect that the grammatically gendered personification of Wisdom as female was a reason the late medieval protestants ejected the Book of Wisdom from their scriptural canon (their loss).

Bannedontherun · 15/03/2025 10:06

Peregrina · 15/03/2025 10:03

Can we report this post for being vexatious?

Or gobbledygook.

Peregrina · 15/03/2025 10:03

Can we report this post for being vexatious?

Merrymouse · 15/03/2025 09:59

ThisPinkWyvern · 15/03/2025 09:28

Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Read full chapter is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gospel of Thomas, Saying 22

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

I am not interested in your answer to the question of whether you believe the above two passages support or do not support being non-binary or transgender. People will always disagree over how to interpret religious texts.

Many non-binary and transgender individuals do however consider how they identify their gender , to be an expression of their religious/ spiritual beliefs.The above two passages are just two examples from Christian religious texts that can be interpreted as non-binary and transgender identities being expressions of religious/ spiritual teachings.

My question therefore is:

Does defining gender as having to be either male or female under law therefore violate the separation of church and state?

You seem confused on multiple levels. This is mumsnet, not momsnet.

1). In the UK our head of state is the head of the established church.

2). See comment from @Meceme

Meceme · 15/03/2025 09:54

No, because the state defines SEX not gender.
As far as gender is concerned, you do you, no worries.

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 09:47

Does defining gender as having to be either male or female under law therefore violate the separation of church and state?

Sounds of a barrel being scraped😂

Hoydenish · 15/03/2025 09:46

Greyskybluesky · 15/03/2025 09:39

Are you actually going to engage if people respond your post? You haven't bothered previously.

It all smacks of gathering material for your own purposes.

Oh and by the way, you don't get to specify what type of answers you want. It's a public forum.

Agree best to not engage with this one who seems on a mission* to garner screenshots.

*did you see what I did there?

Peregrina · 15/03/2025 09:44

As far as I am aware neither the OT or NT talk about gender. So your question is nonsensical. The New Testament also talks about neither Jew nor Gentile, but clearly there are still.

You may also not be aware that the CofE is only the established church in England.

Greyskybluesky · 15/03/2025 09:39

Are you actually going to engage if people respond your post? You haven't bothered previously.

It all smacks of gathering material for your own purposes.

Oh and by the way, you don't get to specify what type of answers you want. It's a public forum.