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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Division of State and Church in respect to gender

112 replies

ThisPinkWyvern · 15/03/2025 09:28

Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Read full chapter is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gospel of Thomas, Saying 22

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

I am not interested in your answer to the question of whether you believe the above two passages support or do not support being non-binary or transgender. People will always disagree over how to interpret religious texts.

Many non-binary and transgender individuals do however consider how they identify their gender , to be an expression of their religious/ spiritual beliefs.The above two passages are just two examples from Christian religious texts that can be interpreted as non-binary and transgender identities being expressions of religious/ spiritual teachings.

My question therefore is:

Does defining gender as having to be either male or female under law therefore violate the separation of church and state?

OP posts:
AshKeys · 15/03/2025 22:30

Pink is what you get if you mix in blood - for example ‘Suffolk pink’ houses were pink from a mix of limewash and ox blood. So I guess a reason for red and pink on the battlefield.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 15/03/2025 22:21

AshKeys · 15/03/2025 22:18

Not so fast. Pink is talking about historical issues and until last century pink was very definitely as masculine colour.

Yup. Red is a manly colour associated with pre-camoflage military uniforms and fox hunting. Pink is red-lite, an appropriate "training wheels" form of red for a small boy.

Blue was associated with the Virgin Mary and so deemed an aspirational colour to dress girls in.

AshKeys · 15/03/2025 22:18

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 22:16

Has anyone checked the pink snake’s pronouns?

She's pink therefore she's ma'am

Not so fast. Pink is talking about historical issues and until last century pink was very definitely as masculine colour.

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 22:16

Has anyone checked the pink snake’s pronouns?

She's pink therefore she's ma'am

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/03/2025 22:10

What more does the Goddess @ThisPinkWyvern want from us?

Has anyone checked the pink snake’s pronouns?

The requirements of Empress Kitty’s cult (my cat is called Empress Kitty) are very simple. She merely demands neck rubs and Dreamies from her worshippers.

ArabellaScott · 15/03/2025 21:54

Hermyknee · 15/03/2025 21:16

You turn around
That is what it’s all about.

Every now and then I fall apart...

And we are back to the cat cult ...

Floating Music Video GIF by Bonnie Tyler
withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 21:51

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 15/03/2025 21:47

Sorry, about 50 years too late to be eligible to offer.

More info than I needed, but thanks anyway😘

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 15/03/2025 21:50

SinnerBoy · 15/03/2025 21:48

Anyway, surely all the stuff pink snake said in them's post just means that, if you subscribe to Christianity, life on Earth is shit for women, (cos God said so) but in the afterlife, we're all humans, all equal?

Like most religions, it doesn't seem to be an attractive one for women, from my male perspective.

I'm not too sure the pink snake's take on Christianity is accepted in the whole of the catholic Church.

SinnerBoy · 15/03/2025 21:48

Anyway, surely all the stuff pink snake said in them's post just means that, if you subscribe to Christianity, life on Earth is shit for women, (cos God said so) but in the afterlife, we're all humans, all equal?

Like most religions, it doesn't seem to be an attractive one for women, from my male perspective.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 15/03/2025 21:47

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 21:41

Alas the OP has abandoned us. We have sinned in some way. We embraced the scripture of John Thomas. We recited the verses of the Songs of the Nineties and performed the Hokey Cokey incantation. We worshipped Kitty's cat. What more does the Goddess @ThisPinkWyvern want from us?

Anyone got a male virgin to sacrifice?

Sorry, about 50 years too late to be eligible to offer.

AshKeys · 15/03/2025 21:44

For myself I see the term 'catholic' as both indicating reform and also a church which accepts a wide range of worship.

In its context within the Nicene Creed it is definitely not reform but rather all the different churches that held together in unity over the doctrine as laid out in the creed, as opposed to the various heresies that had developed in the early church. So the catholic Church is the universal church that accepts these truths - ie churches from across southern Europe, North Africa, and Middle East,.

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/03/2025 21:44

You’d need to check his pronouns first, @withthegreatestrespect.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 15/03/2025 21:43

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 21:41

Alas the OP has abandoned us. We have sinned in some way. We embraced the scripture of John Thomas. We recited the verses of the Songs of the Nineties and performed the Hokey Cokey incantation. We worshipped Kitty's cat. What more does the Goddess @ThisPinkWyvern want from us?

Anyone got a male virgin to sacrifice?

Anyone got a male virgin to sacrifice?

I'm not nipping over to any incel forums to find one. I don't think I'd ever get clean again afterwards.

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 21:41

Alas the OP has abandoned us. We have sinned in some way. We embraced the scripture of John Thomas. We recited the verses of the Songs of the Nineties and performed the Hokey Cokey incantation. We worshipped Kitty's cat. What more does the Goddess @ThisPinkWyvern want from us?

Anyone got a male virgin to sacrifice?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 15/03/2025 21:25

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/03/2025 19:41

Parklife

Right band, wrong track. You're thinking of the "girls who want boys who like boys who do girls who do boys like they're girls who do girls like they're boys".

Hermyknee · 15/03/2025 21:16

You turn around
That is what it’s all about.

SinnerBoy · 15/03/2025 21:15

NextRinny · Today 12:58

This is the way the thread ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper.

"From the burger joint round the corner,
Where the meals - thank Christ! - are skimpy,
Hot dogs direct from Crufts, done in diesel oil,
That's how your world could end,
Not with a bang, but Wimpy!"

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/03/2025 20:33

NoBinturongsHereMate · 15/03/2025 20:25

There are various views on this point, depending on sect and region (Tibetan Buddhism, for example, wouldn't have got very far if it cut out any food groups - at that altitude you eat anything you can). And as Arabella says, most swcts agree alms should be accepted gracefully whatever they consist of.

So cats would be fine under the 'donated food' rule if they were believers. But they wouldn't follow Buddhism - any self respecting cat believes only in itself. It would be a matter of choosing the best place of worship to hang out, rather than picking an actual faith.

I didn’t know that, thanks @NoBinturongsHereMate.

I do have suspicions that Kitty’s trying to establish a cult sometimes. If I ever find her preaching from the balcony while all the local cats are gathered below, I’ll know for sure.

Division of State and Church in respect to gender
Division of State and Church in respect to gender
NoBinturongsHereMate · 15/03/2025 20:31

So a monk who spends hours sitting down and can't throw you out is the best sort of monk:

NoBinturongsHereMate · 15/03/2025 20:25

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/03/2025 18:08

Apart from the vegetarianism - or is it veganism?

But any sensible cat would only follow the rules that suited them.

There are various views on this point, depending on sect and region (Tibetan Buddhism, for example, wouldn't have got very far if it cut out any food groups - at that altitude you eat anything you can). And as Arabella says, most swcts agree alms should be accepted gracefully whatever they consist of.

So cats would be fine under the 'donated food' rule if they were believers. But they wouldn't follow Buddhism - any self respecting cat believes only in itself. It would be a matter of choosing the best place of worship to hang out, rather than picking an actual faith.

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/03/2025 20:07

when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner,

In, out, in out, shake it all about…

Do people still do the Hokey Cokey?

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 20:00

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 18:24

A metaphor for transgenderism

I'm converted @ThisPinkWyvern Where do I sign up to get the stickers and flags?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/03/2025 19:41

ThisPinkWyvern · 15/03/2025 09:28

Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Read full chapter is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gospel of Thomas, Saying 22

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

I am not interested in your answer to the question of whether you believe the above two passages support or do not support being non-binary or transgender. People will always disagree over how to interpret religious texts.

Many non-binary and transgender individuals do however consider how they identify their gender , to be an expression of their religious/ spiritual beliefs.The above two passages are just two examples from Christian religious texts that can be interpreted as non-binary and transgender identities being expressions of religious/ spiritual teachings.

My question therefore is:

Does defining gender as having to be either male or female under law therefore violate the separation of church and state?

Parklife

withthegreatestrespect · 15/03/2025 18:24

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/03/2025 18:16

It reminds me of a Picasso or Dali painting where all the bits are the wrong size / shape or in the wrong place.

A metaphor for transgenderism

Grammarnut · 15/03/2025 18:23

AshKeys · 15/03/2025 16:38

Roman Catholics. There are other Catholic Churches, plus of course the Nicene creed declares there is one holy, catholic and apostolic church.

Not sure if other Catholics include the Apocrypha but Rome does (and theology students read them, from whatever denomination). Protestant churches ditched the lot at least for the laity. As to the Nicene creed, yes it says 'holy catholic and apostolic church'. Discussed this a couple of weeks ago and had various suggestions as to its meaning, from showing that the CofE (which uses the Nicene creed) is saying that it is a reformed catholic church to the meaning of 'catholic' as inclusive and wide-ranging, allowing divergence from practice (though not doctrine) which is certainly applicable to the CofE, where priests in berettas rub shoulders with ministers who won't even have an altar table for the sacrament. For myself I see the term 'catholic' as both indicating reform and also a church which accepts a wide range of worship.

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