Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Sex and Gender are different and they are both important

44 replies

Igmum · 12/03/2025 14:58

A new article in the Journal of Academic Ethics by Madeleine Munzer, Nicole Jameson, Arianwen Harris, Ciara Curren, Natalie Dinsdale and Karleen Gribble says both sex and gender are important in research and reports women leaving studies when their sex isn't accurately reported. Who'd have thought it eh?

Link to article: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10805-025-09605-3

Abstract of the Article
Including women in research and collecting and disaggregating data on sex is an ethical imperative. However, increasingly gender identity is being prioritised over sex in data collection and language which has ethical implications. In this paper, the authors share their experiences as study participants; a health consumer advocate, patient research advisor, and lay researcher; and academic researchers of engaging with researchers, Human Research Ethics Committees (HRECs), university ethics offices, and editors and reviewers of journals regarding data collection and communication on sex and gender identity. We argue that HRECs, researchers, and publishers must carefully consider the implications of omitting data collection on sex, mandatory and universalising gender identity questions and use of desexed language. We also propose that reduced data collection and disaggregation by sex, universal imposition of gender identity, and use of desexed language in research is decreasing data quality, reducing the willingness of some to participate in research and is culturally imperialistic. Recommendations for HRECs are made and research needs in relation to sex and gender identity are outlined. Respect for women in the conduct of research requires their sex-related experiences and needs are considered and therefore that data on sex is appropriately collected and reported upon.

Coverage in the THES https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/prioritisation-gender-identity-exacerbates-female-data-gap?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial-daily&spMailingID=30835500&spUserID=MTY4NzgzNTQyMzQyNQS2&spJobID=2670729381&spReportId=MjY3MDcyOTM4MQS2

Here's to a future of sensible research

Sex and Gender Identity: Data Collection and Language Considerations for Human Research Ethics Committees and Researchers - Journal of Academic Ethics

Including women in research and collecting and disaggregating data on sex is an ethical imperative. However, increasingly gender identity is being prioritised over sex in data collection and language which has ethical implications. In this paper, the a...

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10805-025-09605-3?error=cookies_not_supported&code=e91e2204-7845-4c16-bc25-8975969f399b

OP posts:
spannasaurus · 12/03/2025 23:15

Grammarnut · 12/03/2025 22:49

What's the third choice? NB? Or DSD?

Show quote history

Intersex

Grammarnut · 12/03/2025 22:56

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 12/03/2025 19:44

When he says all parties, which all parties is he talking about, because if women are one of the parties, I as a woman am not offended in the slightest by this view.

Show quote history

Which view? That recording sex is ahistorical (that's nonsense) or 'all parties' (which is obscure and suggests more that 2 sexes)?

Grammarnut · 12/03/2025 22:49

spannasaurus · 12/03/2025 17:27

Except MN offers a choice of three sexes on the census

Show quote history

What's the third choice? NB? Or DSD?

SinnerBoy · 12/03/2025 20:02

</Opens popcorn/>

Shmee1988 · 12/03/2025 19:52

Helleofabore · 12/03/2025 15:43

Thanks OP.

I think it would be hugely interesting to see how this lands. Because there will be a fuck ton of denial about the importance of segregating this data out by those who are entrenched in beliefs and the ridiculous notion of a ‘female brain’. And of course, by that I don’t mean the obvious ‘brain within a female body’ which should be the only way a brain can be considered ‘female.’

You know that this is incredibly inaccurate right? There are a fair few differences between a male and a female brain. Where on earth did you get your information that they are the same?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 12/03/2025 19:44

Igmum · 12/03/2025 19:13

Here you are @ItsCoolForCats

When he says all parties, which all parties is he talking about, because if women are one of the parties, I as a woman am not offended in the slightest by this view.

Original poster
Igmum · 12/03/2025 19:13

Here you are @ItsCoolForCats

Sex and Gender are different and they are both important
OP posts:
ItsCoolForCats · 12/03/2025 18:51

SinnerBoy · 12/03/2025 17:41

ItsCoolForCats · Today 17:25

What does the TA comment say? Is it just a rant or do they make any effort to engage with the arguments in the article?

He said that it's ahistorical to exclude lady larpers from studies on women. He hasn't replied to anything asking him what he meant by that.

🙄

fabricstash · 12/03/2025 18:38

Thanks

IwantToRetire · 12/03/2025 18:09

archive link to full text of TES https://archive.is/OguLP

SinnerBoy · 12/03/2025 17:41

ItsCoolForCats · Today 17:25

What does the TA comment say? Is it just a rant or do they make any effort to engage with the arguments in the article?

He said that it's ahistorical to exclude lady larpers from studies on women. He hasn't replied to anything asking him what he meant by that.

MarieDeGournay · 12/03/2025 17:29

Great article, thank you for signposting it OP!

spannasaurus · 12/03/2025 17:27

EmpressaurusKitty · 12/03/2025 16:22

The current MN census handles it rather well I thought - a question about sex, then a question about gender identity which includes the option to say you don’t have one.

Except MN offers a choice of three sexes on the census

ItsCoolForCats · 12/03/2025 17:25

Igmum · 12/03/2025 16:17

6 comments on the THES article so far, the first from a TA who is very upset, the others all pro. Tide turning perhaps?

What does the TA comment say? Is it just a rant or do they make any effort to engage with the arguments in the article?

EmpressaurusKitty · 12/03/2025 16:22

The current MN census handles it rather well I thought - a question about sex, then a question about gender identity which includes the option to say you don’t have one.

Original poster
Igmum · 12/03/2025 16:17

6 comments on the THES article so far, the first from a TA who is very upset, the others all pro. Tide turning perhaps?

OP posts:
Original poster
Igmum · 12/03/2025 16:12

What researchers really need is a serious of sensible, pragmatic questions about both. The census was a missed opportunity here (as well as a gigantic cock up obvs.). It would be genuinely helpful in many surveys to have details of trans - MtF, FtM and detrans (let's not forget today is Detrans Awareness Day) as well as about sex.

Of course the moment we have all of these sensible questions biological women like IW and BU will tick the wrong boxes anyway, which is a different problem.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 12/03/2025 15:43

Thanks OP.

I think it would be hugely interesting to see how this lands. Because there will be a fuck ton of denial about the importance of segregating this data out by those who are entrenched in beliefs and the ridiculous notion of a ‘female brain’. And of course, by that I don’t mean the obvious ‘brain within a female body’ which should be the only way a brain can be considered ‘female.’

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 12/03/2025 15:30

...imposition of gender identity.....is culturally imperialistic...

🎯