St John Ambulance and people with breasts

They’ll use the stonewall dictionary. ECHR are the devil.

So, i read this yesterday and was irritated, by today i was annoyed and sent in feedback on the form someone helpfully attached. I got a response by almost return saying it was about folk being worried about CPR and breasts. It did say in the light of feedback received they were reviewing it. Too speedily i sent a response saying thank you....but the i thought they've said nothing so i sent another email saying on reflection i wasnt happy with the phrase ' men & people with breasts' and i'd be interested in what EHRC might think. It might be overkill but such important guidance must have been through many processes & committees and they still got it wrong. I'm not convinced they'll get it right on their own. Will let you know if they come back

That is positive Marie 😊

A bit of a derail, but ..
I heard three different reports on the radio yesterday and this morning about women's health issues - breast density possibly invalidating mammograms, endometriosis and - can't remember the other one - perhaps it was about decline in memory function??😕

Every single one of the experts and reporters just said 'woman' - no circumlocutions, no 'people with' anything. Just women. It was very encouraging.

BTW this was on Irish radio, and as we are sadly Terf Island's mirror image in many respects, it was especially positive to hear.

It’s amazing isn’t it - “we are promoting this research about women by not mentioning them - clearly we must prioritise male people who insist they are female”. 🤦‍♀️ I know they’ve changed it now, but it should never have made it to publication in the first place.

Medical misogyny is such a huge issue - & not something a male person will ever experience, however they “identify” &/or alter their bodies.

When was there a social taboo about naked mens chests including breasts and nipples been seen in public?
Pre-WW1 pre-WW2?

The social problem is a woman only taboo but the addition of the binder message is pretending that a woman is not a woman.

However at least the reply was skillfully worded to avoid further conflict.

All that they need to say is CPR or defibrillation will be performed on everybody when required regardless of body type

Yes

Plus they posted similar on 8th March on Facebook -for international women's day which just says women though the link says women and people with breasts.

Once again we have a clear example of how people don't actually believe the things they've convinced themselves they believe.

Now if you ACTUALLY believed that gender had nothing to do with sex you wouldn't formulate a sentence like "people with breasts and men" because you would "know", in the same way you know two plus two, that of course a man can have breasts, I worked with a transman who made no effort to disguise theirs.

Instead they managed to produce a statement which is arguably "transphobic" as it implies that a man with breasts can't be a man.

You can't actually "unknow" what sex is any more than you can unknow basic maths or the words of your first language. I suspect there's a mathematical law somewhere that someone can only use the "correct" language about gender for a certain time before accidentally revealing this.

Just looked at the link and the headline is now how to use a defibrillator on women and people with breasts so I think they have listened to the feedback sent

I resigned when they insisted that new volunteers provide pronouns on their applications. They then altered it so that you could “prefer not to say” but then a window would pop up lecturing you as to why you should give pronouns. They were utterly deaf to any challenge re women’s rights.

I bet the trans policy is still operational as well, where women should be “educated” if they complain about sharing changing facilities with biological men. 😡

Thanks @bugalugs45 - first aiders are so important. I hope your Dad told that woman that he was saving her life! Such a shame that SJAS got caught up in this regressive nonsense that you can't say the word woman. It obscures the good work they do and - just as with NHS staff asking men if they could be pregnant - makes them look incompetent. 🙄

My dad who is a first aider had to drop a bleed once by applying pressure on a woman's groin area , he said an old lady stopped , and told him off, that he shouldn't be touching her there !
In ( life saving ) medicine we have to touch body parts of strangers that we wouldn't normally in everyday life , but considering the alternative , surely everyone in their correct mind would say crack on ( excuse the pun ! )
If I'm having a heart attack please feel free to grab my boobs or any part of my body you deem appropriate or necessary.

It's a bit of a non apology but suppose it's small steps. They couldn't summon up the courage to recognise that calling women "people with breasts" while men are called men in the same sentence is offensive. So they double down on why PWB is appropriate (it isn't).

Sadly instead of amending their headline they've removed it - thus losing the impact of that worrying fact that:
"People with breasts Women are statistically less likely to receive bystander CPR than men, let's change that"

Why has that powerful fact been removed?

Yet again pandering to the male dominated trans ideology repeatedly makes organisations look incompetent and unfit for purpose - and women and girls lose out - all the time.

Why not say 'person with a penis'? I ❤ mine 😉

Absolutely.

I think we ought to organise protests. Women dress as men, and on mass go into men's changing rooms and make them feel uncomfortable. Had enough now.

Yes, hopefully they reflect on why presumably several people, assuming some sort of checking and sign-off of the text, let their eyes just slide over the word "men".

At this stage honestly I do believe it's a knee jerk reaction to the words "woman" or "female" and not considering inclusion at all.

Sadly I doubt anything will actually have been learned though and the feeling will be very much angry-women-sooooo-annoying.

I am fed up.

I'm a woman, I wish to be called a woman.

If they want to caveat this with transgender women or men with breasts than so be it. But call me a woman please.

Please stop trying to accommodate everyone else, and not thinking about the impact on women.

Pretty pissed off.

And persons with willies?

We are called women!

I hope they have Had A Word with whoever put PWB in, because otherwise it was a positive campaign aimed at getting appropriate prompt care to women.

The PWB person has caused a whole lot of unnecessary hassle to St J A, which is a shame because judging from the motivation behind the campaign, and their response, their heart is in the right place - pun unintended, but I'll let it stand

This is their response, which TBF, I am happy with.

Please let me reassure you we are committed to appropriately representing women. We demonstrate this commitment in the work we do in communities, as well as our online content.

Recently we have highlighted research finding fewer women receive CPR than men because of social fears about touching breasts in an emergency. However, this issue is not exclusive to women, and we used the terminology ‘people with breasts’ on our website to reflect the wider social problem. We have now reviewed our web content following feedback, and we are adjusting the wording to ensure these pages will more clearly represent everyone St John seeks to help.

It was very thoughtless.

the difference between how men and women describe heart attack symptoms. It was a really good course

See, if the differences between how MALES and FEMALES experience and present with Heart Attack symptoms were more widely known then maybe there would be fewer instances of 'people with breasts' requiring defribrilation or CPR.

@CrossPurposes Great that they've changed it! Thanks for highlighting this.

This

And as it's my breasts that have been the focus of a great deal of the harassment I've received including serious assault, i find the phrase weirdly victim blaming...like if I don't like the second rate medical treatment or the harassment I should get rid of my breasts. Which is of course exactly what genderism advocates.