Does anyone else resent the gender/ TERF wars?

No, I do not think I am unique. I don't know why you're crowing in superiority over another assumption that is not true. Not wanting online abuse directed at you is quite normal behaviour and very average.

Screaming HOW FUCKING DARE YOU repeatedly and using slurs against someone is not "robust tackling". It's straight up abuse. If it were form 'the other side' you would be screen shitting it and sharing it here as proof than all transgender people are violent abusive people. You're being disingenuous and you know it.

I suggested they might like to write - and then perform - plays. Seems like an extension of larping, since you say people write scripts for it. I also like to be out and doing things - lovely time walking round Derbyshire just recently. That I write doesn't stop me doing that.

It is an anger problem when you repeatedly shout HOW FUCKING DARE YOU and the cheek of you and more insults at a stranger. I know how trauma works, it's not a free pass to treat people like this. This is abusive behaviour. A lot of abusers suffered abuse before they abused other people, damaged people do awful things. That doesn't make it acceptable.

I'm done arguing with you, I won't be replying again. Stop harassing me.

For example, this was your first post on this thread, I think?

Nowhere here do you say "I believe women deserve single sex spaces". If you had made that clear it would have avoided a lot of misinterpretation.

Of course posters on here are going to jump in based on what you wrote in that post.

I love the way posters like you think you're unique.

You aren't

I've seen this exact take so many times before. You've been tackled robustly and you then switch tack to trying to take the moral high ground over 'tone'

Remember ladies, you need to find exactly the right register to voice your points before anyone will even listen to you. Got it?

Meanwhile, on the other side of the debate, no objections to this kind of thing

terfisaslur.com

The irony of course is that it is us 'mean feminists' that have been advocating for third spaces for years, but these poor transwomen who apparently 'can't live in peace' that have said no to it.

If these transwomen wanted to live in peace, WHY don't they agree to third spaces then?

You haven't been clear on your stance up to now though, either here or in past posts. So it's not wholly surprising that people didn't understand your beliefs.

I believe women deserve single sex spaces. I don't believe transgender people should be forced into spaces they feel uncomfortable in and I think a lot of people would also be uncomfortable seeing a person presenting as the opposite sex in their single sex spaces. Therefore I think a third space should be available in the form of unisex facilities such as single occupancy rooms with lockable doors rather than open changing rooms or toilets with cubicles.

Yes, a third space perhaps "should" be available. But currently, third spaces are generally not available. So what do we do now? What happens now? Posters on here are concerned about the now. Not the would-be-nice-to-have-in-the-future-when-we-get-round-to-it. The situation as it stands now. Today.

What do you think ought to happen now?

Insults? No, just the truth. Telling a rape survivor she has an 'anger problem' (you're truly obsessed with this) because she was traumatised and upset by your post is what is truly insulting. If you ever had anything useful to say that wasn't full of misogynistic invective it would be a first.

Ah more insults.

Do you have anything useful to say or you just going to keep insulting me? It shows a lack of intelligence and and anger problem.

Well I'm very glad you find discussion about the rights of rape victims so amusing. That really says a lot.

I believe women deserve single sex spaces. I don't believe transgender people should be forced into spaces they feel uncomfortable in and I think a lot of people would also be uncomfortable seeing a person presenting as the opposite sex in their single sex spaces. Therefore I think a third space should be available

And I hope you realise this is basically the view of 99% of regulars who post here. So you're actually a big bad TERF after all.

Yes, calling out abusive behaviour is tiring when you would rather people just ignored it because it's a woman doing it so it's fine and you want them to join the ruck.

I have made it quite clear that it is not just the tone but the content of @WillIEverBeOk s posts I have a problem with. Being accused of having no empathy, holding beliefs I don't actually hold and using slurs against me including misogynist I very much have a problem with.

I am not interested in having an "argument" with any of you, but I am interested in telling people who behave that way towards me to fuck off.

I have answered questions about LARP and reenactment because I enjoy LARP and people are often wrong about what LARP is or how rich it is as a community and hobby, it's seriously mind expanding and educating people who think it's uncreative and lacking emotion seems a worthwhile use of my energy.

Having the same argument everyone here has been having for 19 years with no resolution does not seem like a worthwhile use of my energy.

Because quite frankly it's amusing watching you all tie yourself up knots over things I haven't actually said.

I believe women deserve single sex spaces. I don't believe transgender people should be forced into spaces they feel uncomfortable in and I think a lot of people would also be uncomfortable seeing a person presenting as the opposite sex in their single sex spaces. Therefore I think a third space should be available in the form of unisex facilities such as single occupancy rooms with lockable doors rather than open changing rooms or toilets with cubicles.

So there. I'm not a misogynist despite HOW FUCKING DARE I actually care about trans people as well as women. I think you owe me apology for all the insults and slurs you used towards me when you didn't even understand my beliefs, but I won't hold my breath.

Personally I don't find solo, sedentary activities exciting. I like to be out being social and active.

Writing is a perfectly valid source of enjoyment but I can't see why you would suggest LARPers should do that instead as if LARPing is a problem or something that should be avoided.

I want transpeoe to live in peace. I want all people to live in peace. The problem is too many transpeople do not want me to live in peace because they do not want me to have access to the truly single-sex spaces I need as a rape survivor . So I have to fight.

Plenty are answering. Women do not want men in the hard won spaces they have. They are willing to fight for those spaces, because they have already had to fight for those spaces. We are hostile because the men in frocks and their trans allies have decided to break our boundaries and no-one in the patriarchy has thought it important to protect women - so we will protect ourselves.

Yet you don't understand that these males in female spaces mean us females can't 'live in peace'. Of course feminists are not going to let males 'live in peace' if they are entering our spaces! You're acting as if transwomen are victims instead of the invaders they are. They are the ones who won't let anyone live in peace! They are 100% responsible for the pushback they receive.

You also have not answered those who asked you if females deserve single sex spaces. Hmmm why is that?

I have empathy. You will note as I said to @WillIEverBeOk I haven't actually said at any point women don't deserve single sex spaces. You've all just assumed that because I want trans people to live in peace after seeing the way my friends have been treated.

You have accused me of being a misogynist and having no empathy for rape survivors or victims of abuse.

You were too busy ranting to notice that I didn't actually say I don't believe women have the right to single sex spaces. After I pointed this out you continued assuming I don't believe that. Seriously, calm down and read.

I am so sorry you were raped. However, people react differently. That you do not mind transwomen in women's sex-segregated spaces cannot justify making that decision for others, however, which means that transwomen must respect women's wishes and stay out.

I agree with @Greyskybluesky and @MarieDeGournay - more so on the internet but even in real life, most people have no choice but to take what they are told at face value. If somebody types on a talkboard that they are a rape survivor, how can you know whether they really are or just saying it to score a point?

The issue is what the rest of the world is expected to do with such declarations.

If somebody who says they're a rape survivor declares that they're positively delighted to spend trauma counselling sessions or intimate undressed time with male humans, well that's nice for them, and as we all know such spaces are very readily available for their enjoyment. What said person shouldn't be allowed to do is scold those who don't derive the same level of inclusive euphoria from such scenarios, and make it so that other rape survivors don't get single-sex spaces that they need.

Well said, Greyskybluesky, this is an important point- if somebody says they are a rape survivor, it does not entitle them to claim we are insulting and hating and all the other things that Glitterknickerbockers accused us of in her first post, and expect everybody to be 'nice' back.

But they are entitled to being believed.

Both are exciting. Writing is the most fun thing I do when alone (alas, now I do most things alone and also it's Lent). Dressing up for whatever occasion is great, too. But writing plays takes tenacity, I suppose.

Claiming to be a rape survivor but yet not UNDERSTANDING or spotting the distress of a fellow rape victim (which would be obvious and recognisable to that poster if they truly were raped) is yet another sign they are full of it.

I do agree with the majority of what you say @WillIEverBeOk but I have to challenge this bit. When it comes to rape/sexual assault, the starting point always has to be that the survivor is telling the truth. Whoever they are, even if they hold objectionable opinions. This bit reads as if the poster isn't telling the truth and I'm not comfortable with that assumption.

It is, however, extremely difficult to comprehend that someone who has been through such a traumatic experience would not have empathy for others in the same situation and understand why those women would want single sex spaces.