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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I was hounded out of publishing - I was persona non grata for publishing Material Girls

86 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/03/2025 01:42

In September, I will appear as the claimant at an employment tribunal, in which Hachette is the respondent. I resigned in April 2024 because I had found it impossible, for various reasons, to do my job.

Over the next few years, this kind of abuse became routine. I was called a terf, a transphobe, a bigot, a far-right conspiracist, a vicious bully, a racist; accused of having been radicalised online as though I were an 18-year-old incel, not a fiftysomething female book publisher; and told I was widely despised by my colleagues and everyone in the industry. These posts would copy in my employers and various staff networks at Hachette. They came from all sorts of people in and around publishing, some anonymous, some not, some who had themselves complained about being bullied online, and some with tens of thousands of followers. One of my most persistent critics was a self-styled publishing commentator who continued to be platformed by the industry at the London Book Fair and was appointed as a judge for the British Book Awards. She was in addition an enthusiastic advocate for a group of young people in publishing who set up a social media account, The Young Refuseniks, which they used to advertise their curation of a “blocklist” — crucially different from a blacklist, you see — which identified all the “transphobes” in the industry, so that people could be kept “safe” from us (because of course, I was on the list). After they realised that blacklists, sorry, blocklists, are considered somewhat problematic, the whole thing disappeared, but not before it had garnered a great deal of support from many in the business.

In May 2021, three days before the publication of Material Girls, the Bookseller published an “open letter” from a group of anonymous people in the industry who claimed that “transphobia” was rife in publishing. The three-page document was titled “The Paradox of Tolerance”: “If we are tolerant but ill-informed, tolerant with no limit and no moral compass, then the intolerant destroy inclusivity and persecute minorities. To maintain a tolerant society that moves with new understanding and broadens its language to include rather than exclude, we must be intolerant of prejudice.”

Start of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/how-i-was-hounded-out-of-publishing/

How I was hounded out of publishing | Ursula Doyle | The Critic Magazine

“I am going to dissect every word of this toxic TERF-y trash fire and call out the sheer irresponsible cruelty of platforming a notorious bigot with a release like this. @Docstockk is a [sic] infamous…

https://thecritic.co.uk/how-i-was-hounded-out-of-publishing/

OP posts:
PrettyDamnCosmic · 12/03/2025 14:18

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 12/03/2025 12:37

I don’t ever think about it quite honestly @KnottyAuty I don’t think my generation grew up worrying about having one or what it was. It’s driven by SM - the need for an online identity, for labels, tribes, to recognise if others are “in” or “out” of the same tribe.

I saw an interesting post in the last few days where someone said that she would have been vulnerable to becoming trans if that had been a thing when she was growing up but instead she became a goth. You don't need a quasi-religious belief system to be a goth but I got her point.

bubblerabbit · 12/03/2025 13:23

The more I see of all of this, the more I'm also utterly convinced that it appeals to a certain type of person because it enables them to bully others without fear of punishment, and that's the true appeal of believing in this nonsense. I do not for one second believe that any of them actually think that they've changed sex/don't have a sex.

But you can bully other people for refusing to comply, and even better, when they point out that you're a bully, you can get them in trouble for that too. The power. It must be utterly glorious. You can have people absolutely walking on eggshells around you. You can send flying monkeys off to bully staff members you don't like, particularly if they're a bit older and female. You can rule with your pronoun rod and everyone will cave to your demands and it comes with the added benefit of being able to tell yourself that you're not just a shit of a bully, you're a morally good person.

I've seen it in my kids' school, I've seen it online, it's happening in workplaces.

Same shit as there ever was.

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 12/03/2025 12:37

I don’t ever think about it quite honestly @KnottyAuty I don’t think my generation grew up worrying about having one or what it was. It’s driven by SM - the need for an online identity, for labels, tribes, to recognise if others are “in” or “out” of the same tribe.

KnottyAuty · 12/03/2025 12:24

Identity is a funny “thing” isn’t it. Mine is totally linked to my job/profession. And for a long time my old employer. I had a huge identity crisis leaving them to work for myself. Anchoring oneself to gender ideology is the equivalent to building a house on sand I’d have thought. A strong breeze and the whole lot comes down. What’s a more productive thing to hang on to? Sport? Music? Academics? Volunteering? Focussing so much on gender and about the self is too inward looking isn’t it?

BulbousSpring · 12/03/2025 11:22

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/03/2025 10:02

"My "gender" is neither male or female but it's a bit more like male"

Right.

That's just based on stereotypes and analogies. 'I like football, have short hair and fancy women, and I don't like skirts or wear makeup therefore I must be male' rather than just a woman who is a buzzcutted, fresh-faced, trouser-wearing lesbian football fan.

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 12/03/2025 10:59

👆

No wonder young people are suffering from anxiety and other MH issues - this shit is coming at them from all directions including from some schools, from celebrities, from SM, from films, books….

It makes no sense to ANY of them but everyone around them is acting as if “gender” is as real as their arms or legs. I feel really sorry for the children this diabolical piece of brainwashing book is aimed at.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/03/2025 10:02

"My "gender" is neither male or female but it's a bit more like male"

Right.

suladoyle · 12/03/2025 09:56

stargirl1701 · 11/03/2025 19:48

Plus ca change...

The Carnegie Shortlist was announced today. 'Homebody' by Theo Parish on the shortlist for excellence in illustration. Suggested reading age from the publisher is 14+

https://amzn.eu/d/3oVRLQl

Blurb as follows:

Hello! I’m Theo. I like cats, Dungeons & Dragons . . . and I’m trans and non-binary.

Ever since I was young, I’ve been on a journey to explore who I am. To discover the things that make me . . . me.

Sometimes it can feel like the world is trying to fit you into a box, to label you one way or another, but there is nothing more wonderful than finding your true authentic self, whoever you are. Whether you are transgender or cisgender, we are all searching for ways to make our houses feel like homes . . .

The publishers of these books are spreading misinformation and acting so irresponsibly. Here is a guest post about children’s publishing after Cass on Julie Bindel’s blog that I wrote anonymously when I still had a job to worry about…open.substack.com/pub/juliebindel/p/publishing-and-cass-a-guest-post?r=510i&utm_medium=ios

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 11/03/2025 22:34

Theo’s parents need to switch off the Wi-Fi and get her busy with anything other than pondering her identity.

bubblerabbit · 11/03/2025 20:25

'the world tries to label you' says Theo, who conforms to the current fad for meaningless labels.

stargirl1701 · 11/03/2025 19:48

Plus ca change...

The Carnegie Shortlist was announced today. 'Homebody' by Theo Parish on the shortlist for excellence in illustration. Suggested reading age from the publisher is 14+

https://amzn.eu/d/3oVRLQl

Blurb as follows:

Hello! I’m Theo. I like cats, Dungeons & Dragons . . . and I’m trans and non-binary.

Ever since I was young, I’ve been on a journey to explore who I am. To discover the things that make me . . . me.

Sometimes it can feel like the world is trying to fit you into a box, to label you one way or another, but there is nothing more wonderful than finding your true authentic self, whoever you are. Whether you are transgender or cisgender, we are all searching for ways to make our houses feel like homes . . .

I was hounded out of publishing  - I was persona non grata for publishing Material Girls
I was hounded out of publishing  - I was persona non grata for publishing Material Girls
Floofyboy2010 · 11/03/2025 08:24

suladoyle · 11/03/2025 08:18

Naomi gave me Very Strict Instructions about the bundle, and obviously I followed them assiduously. NC has written a book for ET claimants, and despite its being more than ten years old, it is still very useful, if anyone is going through the same thing.

Good luck with your hearing, I will be following closely. You are in brilliant hands with NC.

suladoyle · 11/03/2025 08:18

Floofyboy2010 · 10/03/2025 22:49

It was an episode of Daniel Barnett's employment law podcast!

Naomi gave me Very Strict Instructions about the bundle, and obviously I followed them assiduously. NC has written a book for ET claimants, and despite its being more than ten years old, it is still very useful, if anyone is going through the same thing.

Floofyboy2010 · 10/03/2025 22:49

fanOfBen · 09/03/2025 09:36

Gardened (again). Interesting to read that a lot of what's going on right now is bundle preparation, after hearing about how particular NC is about bundle preparation! (Now someone's going to ask where that was and I don't remember... an article aimed mostly at lawyers, I think, about the practicalities of preparing a good bundle? Google does find me this:

https://etclaims.co.uk/2008/09/sedleys-laws-of-documents/

with a comment by her!)

It was an episode of Daniel Barnett's employment law podcast!

duc748 · 10/03/2025 16:33

WinterTrees · 10/03/2025 11:23

I found this interesting thread from 2022 on the Young Refuseniks (which sounds uncannily like something invented by Rik from the Young Ones.)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4560823-blocklist-of-transphobic-people-in-publishing?page=1

Thank you, Ursula, for your principled courage and dignity.

So much these days reminds me of Rik from The Young Ones. But it's no laughing matter really, is it?

Britinme · 10/03/2025 15:55

What a lovely day for gardening. Seeds planted.

RoyalCorgi · 10/03/2025 13:26

AndInTheEnd · 10/03/2025 11:51

Publishing is utterly in thrall to the erratic whims of the internet, which skews to a younger, constantly scrolling, eager-to-be-on-the-right-side-of-history-in-Bourton-on-the-Water audience. BookTok is a major source of influence, and therefore key driver of volume sales, while reviewers, particularly in the US, love to start wildfires of umbrage. For publishers, The Internet is basically like having a pet dragon: great when it's on your side, impossible to train or predict, and potentially catastrophic if it turns on you. And Gen Z/Alpha are commonly considered to understand it better than their Gen X managers who are increasingly nervous about which of their previously commonplace opinions might render them toast.

It's not unreasonable to suggest that older publishers' paranoia about 'not getting it' - or worse, being cancelled, French Revolution style, by their own assistants - gives junior staff like the Young Refuseniks an inflated sense of their own vital role in the moral health of the publishing house - until the end of year accounts are due...

Edited

I'm sure you're right, but it's a bit mad, isn't it? Not just because reputable publishing houses that have been round 100 years or more shouldn't be in thrall to the whims and idiocies of their junior staff, but also because the large majority of the book-buying public are older women. That's why Material Girls, Trans (the Helen Joyce book), The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht etc sold so well. You're not just making yourself morally bankrupt, you're in danger of making yourself financially bankrupt too.

FlowchartRequired · 10/03/2025 12:56

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:43

Is JK Rolwling involved in helping you, @suladoyle?

I don't think Ursula should answer that.

BadSkiingMum · 10/03/2025 12:35

Goodness, what a horrible experience. I hope that Ursula has managed to rebuild her career elsewhere or find a niche where she feels safe enough to grow again.

I had the misfortune to be caught in the silent heart of an organisational purity spiral a few years' back. I won't say much more, but what I would not underestimate is:

a) the socially contagious effect of one person casting an aspersion of wrongdoing or even wrong-thinking, especially if it is around the volatile areas of gender, race, sexuality or religion*;
b) the fear factor, so well portrayed in The Crucible and 1984, whereby each person fears that if they don't denounce the problematic individual sufficiently fiercely or stridently, then they too are guilty by association;
c) it ultimately comes down to process and mechanisms. A crowd can whip up a mob, but the instigators ultimately cause the most harm by weaponising official processes such as complaints or grievances against the transgressing individual.

*For some reason, age, sex and disability don't seem to provoke such strong feelings...

AndInTheEnd · 10/03/2025 11:51

Publishing is utterly in thrall to the erratic whims of the internet, which skews to a younger, constantly scrolling, eager-to-be-on-the-right-side-of-history-in-Bourton-on-the-Water audience. BookTok is a major source of influence, and therefore key driver of volume sales, while reviewers, particularly in the US, love to start wildfires of umbrage. For publishers, The Internet is basically like having a pet dragon: great when it's on your side, impossible to train or predict, and potentially catastrophic if it turns on you. And Gen Z/Alpha are commonly considered to understand it better than their Gen X managers who are increasingly nervous about which of their previously commonplace opinions might render them toast.

It's not unreasonable to suggest that older publishers' paranoia about 'not getting it' - or worse, being cancelled, French Revolution style, by their own assistants - gives junior staff like the Young Refuseniks an inflated sense of their own vital role in the moral health of the publishing house - until the end of year accounts are due...

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:43

Is JK Rolwling involved in helping you, @suladoyle?

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:42

suladoyle · 09/03/2025 12:04

They asked for anonymity, and the judge refused it at the case management hearing last August.

Good.

Welcome. Material Girls is a valuable, important book and I'm glad you had the balls to publish it.

I'm so sorry to hear about what gah happened to you since. I'm happy to support you and do some gardening.

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:39

Publishing is totally captured.

WinterTrees · 10/03/2025 11:23

I found this interesting thread from 2022 on the Young Refuseniks (which sounds uncannily like something invented by Rik from the Young Ones.)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4560823-blocklist-of-transphobic-people-in-publishing?page=1

Thank you, Ursula, for your principled courage and dignity.

graceinspace999 · 10/03/2025 09:28

suladoyle · 09/03/2025 11:37

Hi everyone, thank you so much for the supportive comments. They do help to alleviate my sense of isolation and anxiety. I am v grateful 🙏

I’m shocked to read about how you’ve been treated - they need to be forced to admit just how hypocritical their actions are.

I have a feeling that your opinions are (quietly) held by the majority of women and it’s sad that we’ve been disenfranchised through threats and bullying.

This must be so difficult for you but know that there is much support and gratitude for your courage and principles 🌺

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