Supreme Court For Women Scotland

I think that was the point Tallisker was making. Why should someone get time off for cosmetic surgery because they identify as trans, when the rest of the population don’t even get paid time for life-saving surgery cancer treatment?

I'm sorry to hear that. It doesn't mean that transition or even detransition should have more protection than other medical conditions / disabilities.

Time off for pregnancy / maternity care is a special case for legal protection, because it's critical healthcare for mothers and babies which they might not get otherwise. There's a clear measurable benefit to society.

I have to take flexitime to attend cancer-related appointments, even though it's classed as a disability. I don't get anything extra.

Swinney to meet feminist campaigners who oppose SNP trans reforms

Better headline - I wonder when they changed it.

Archive archive.ph/MdXpp

The headline seems to have changed.

Ah, thanks, I was only partly remembering it then. Having already outed myself as about the same age as Naomi Cunningham I'm not a candidate! Don't think I could in conscience recommend it. Certainly not to someone who might need pregnancy or maternity protection in employment, as that would also be out.

The Abortion Act 1967 creates exemptions to an abortion ban codified in <digs through legislation.gov.uk> the Offences Against The Person Act 1861, which mentions only women.

So a man who became pregnant wouldn't be a criminal if he tried to self-abort, in theory. What one of us needs to do is test this: identify as a man and get a GRC, then get pregnant, then video herhimself taking illegally-obtained abortion pills and surrender herhimself to the police for arrest. We can all crowdfund a top-notch defence barrister to argue that a TM with a GRC can't be prosecuted under a law that explicitly mentions women because of the "for all purposes" clause and OATPA's abortion ban isn't one of the explicitly-listed exceptions. If that argument fails, it proves the FWS argument that sex in law refers to biology. If that argument is successful, it provides a means for every woman in the UK to decriminalise abortion for herself by getting a GRC so that she is legally a man.

I'd volunteer but I think I'll be too old to get pregnant in two years' time when the waiting period for a GRC ends. Anyone fancy taking one for the team?

All very fair points. I was thinking more about the detransitioners when it comes to time off for medical appointments but also how far off we are from the medicalisation of trans(-identifying) people being classed under the mental health umbrella.

Whether it's someone changing their physical body to match a belief that they hold or as part of a fetish-driven fantasy (and the sometimes blurry lines between these two points), the reality is that it's life-impacting to do so and potentially also life-limiting. So ultimately, it's a mental health issue that anyone would do this.

The less we treat transition or gender identity as a specially deserving case, the better for everyone in the long run.

Fully agree.

I believe so, but now dressed conventionally as a man and referred to as such.

I remember him, can’t believe that was the result, yukm and I presume he’s still teaching children, how horrifying

In real life do they really lose any benefits, health or otherwise? Don’t the Kind Brigade just go oh poor poor you, lets just ignore your fk.n mental illness/sexual perversion and treat you like the very extrodianarily brave trans you are.

Gender expression’ would be an absolute nightmare. People would turn up in all kinds of of furry and fetish wear. Even asking your employees to dress smart-casual would be out, let alone uniforms. Can’t you just imagine how school children would take it?

Yes I take your point there.

Either keeping gender reassignment or putting under disability could work, but the latter would require gender dysphoria to be recognised as a mental illness.

Absolutely in favour of that, where it involves medical elements under sight of doctors. The rest can be dealt with under belief, or "gender expression".

I do believe repealing the GRA in its current form is the most important thing.

This. Why should they have more rights to medical appointments than other people? It is not even as if these treatment have been shown to be beneficial to their mental health. Plus the whole problem with this protected characteristic is they claim indirect discrimination based on not being treated like the opposite sex. You can indirectly discriminate against someone if it is a proportionate way to achieve a legitimate aim (and if it is proportionate to exclude some men then it would be to exclude them all) but the whole idea of having to assess, plus all Stonewall law, means it is another way women’s rights are undermined.

‘Gender expression’ would be an absolute nightmare. People would turn up in all kinds of of furry and fetish wear. Even asking your employees to dress smart-casual would be out, let alone uniforms. Can’t you just imagine how school children would take it?

I don't really see why transitioners should have more rights to time off for medical appointments than anyone else. Wouldn't detransitioners be protected under disability given the long-term mental and physical effects of medical and surgical transition? Transitoners also, if they are suffering longterm mental health issues for which transition is proven to be the best treatment.

The less we treat transition or gender identity as a specially deserving case, the better for everyone in the long run.

Ah yes of course I do remember that!

As I understand it, the current PC protects both transitioners and detransitioners from discrimination if they need time off for medical appointments etc.

If it is removed and protection is belief or gender expression, I don't think this would provide the same protections.

For belief, detransitioners could miss out because many no longer believe that they have a gender identity. And gender expression wouldn't cover either transitioners or detransitioners for medical appointments. Also it might have the unintended consequence of letting Málaga Airport folk wear all sorts of weird stuff and claim protection under "expression".

Either keeping gender reassignment or putting under disability could work, but the latter would require gender dysphoria to be recognised as a mental illness. I would be happy to keep the PC of gender reassignment as is if sex in the EA is confirmed to mean biological sex, irrespective of GRC status. It'd be even better if the GRA was also repealed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11235121/Canadian-high-school-says-ILLEGAL-criticize-trans-teacher-huge-prosthetic-breasts.html

This one.

No. Do you remember the Canadian teacher, possibly woodwork teacher. With the massive, like really huge, fake breasts. He was allowed to wear them because it was his 'gender expression'.

🤞🤞

Feasibly a lot of actual discrimination against gender non conforming people would come under sexism and/or homophobia.

The Labour government must be absolutely dreading Parliament being asked to sort out the mess. There wont be a quick fix to the legislation that they can pass without a huge public fuss and public opinion is shifting away from TWAW so time is not on their side. Sandie Peggie's case attracted huge press and public attention and there are plenty of similar discrimination cases still working their way towards the courts. It wont just go away. All the opposition parties will smell blood.

I'm sure Labour would much rather blame the court for saying TWANW and then kick the issue into the long grass.

Would changing gender reassignment to gender expression work?