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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julian is a mermaid

39 replies

2in2022twoyearson · 28/02/2025 15:58

I'll admit, I've not read the book, but my DD (6yo) is reading it at school. Is it a good one? Anything to be wary of...if the message is, he's a boy, who dresses up as a mermaid, but still a boy, that's ok. I think I won't ask about it, just see if she brings it up.

I think it's the wider cultural context that makes me uncomfortable.

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ZeldaFighter · 19/03/2025 11:45

Is Aquaman a 🧜‍♂️? Because Jason Momoa is quite fetching and definitely a man 😀

Hoppinggreen · 18/03/2025 19:04

I often wonder how popular mermaids/men would be in mythology etc if they were the other way round - fish top half and human bottom?

2in2022twoyearson · 18/03/2025 19:03

It was one of his many quirks. I guess my autistic cousin spoke like his mum so maybe they don't relearn and adapt to languages once he's learnt them.

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2in2022twoyearson · 18/03/2025 19:01

My DH works with autistic children and they often take on accents from TV eg memorising scripts. Often it's American voices.

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MarieDeGournay · 18/03/2025 18:40

2in2022twoyearson · 18/03/2025 15:04

Funny you say about accents - my (undiagnosed but assumed)autistic cousin spoke queens English while his younger sister had the local accent.

Ooh don't get me started on accents, I love them! And this is really fascinating - so the autistic child didn't 'absorb' the local accent the way children tend to..
But I digress and derail!

All the best with your DD, 2in2022twoyearson, you're doing her such a favour by showing her that she's not two things, she's one great little girl with a range of talents and interests from all across the 'stereotype' spectrum.
And with a supportive and thoughtful mamSmile

2in2022twoyearson · 18/03/2025 15:04

Funny you say about accents - my (undiagnosed but assumed)autistic cousin spoke queens English while his younger sister had the local accent.

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2in2022twoyearson · 18/03/2025 15:01

I think young children development like to have stereotypes to help form their identity, she does think of the boy girl stereotypes. She should grow from there. She told me she thinks she's part boy, part girl because she likes and dislikes a range of things that are for boys and girls. So because of all the trans aimed at children I want her to be clear she is a girl, so I reinforce this. She enjoys wearing dresses but doesn't like unicorns. Also not very sporty or footbally but like cars and gadgets and is friends with boys and girls. She'll get there eventually. Haha.

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MarieDeGournay · 18/03/2025 13:41

2in2022twoyearson · 16/03/2025 12:50

Yes, so even though she loves Lego, including gadgets toy and her auntie is an enjeneer and granny a maths teacher lots of other female role models in STEM she still wants to be a childminder when she grows up and loves every lesson except maths, when we do maths at home she loves it. When I quized her it's because other children (a boy) doesn't like maths.

It just goes to show the power of outside influences, doesn't it?🙄

I always think of accents as an example of this - parents could have the strongest Dublin accent in the entire world, but if the family moves to Cork, the kids will develop a Cork accent ASAP in order to fit in with their peers, not with their parents!

Your DD is lucky to have a mam/mum [delete according to your accent..] who is thinking deeply about this, and lucky to have so many good role models, and I'm sure she'll eventually get the message that boys and girls can be anything they darn well want when they grown up!😄

ExtraordinaryMachine1 · 17/03/2025 16:26

Lol! Kids say the darndest things... 😂

2in2022twoyearson · 17/03/2025 14:31

She made her own gadget with Lego gadgets book, I said are you an enjeneer. She said yes then paused and said I'll teach toddlers about gears and cogs when I'm a childminder. Faceplant lol.

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2in2022twoyearson · 16/03/2025 12:50

Yes, so even though she loves Lego, including gadgets toy and her auntie is an enjeneer and granny a maths teacher lots of other female role models in STEM she still wants to be a childminder when she grows up and loves every lesson except maths, when we do maths at home she loves it. When I quized her it's because other children (a boy) doesn't like maths.

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MarieDeGournay · 16/03/2025 12:10

2in2022twoyearson · 16/03/2025 08:58

Follow up on this. My daughter brought up this book in conversation about what she's doing on school. Now they've finished reading it they're planning writing their own story based on it. DD story is Max is an engineer. All about making an alarm clock that makes breakfast. She read this in her Lego gadgets book and has been wanting to make one at home, I said I wouldn't know how. At a science museum recently someone told her she'd be a good enjeneer and she was happy about that. They do have a lot of girl power type books and topic at school eg the first woman to fly a plane. I guess this book is for balence. On top of the girls in STEM, they have boys into fashion. But she still thinks an enjeneer should be a boy. 😂

Thanks for the follow up, I'm glad the Julian book went..swimmingly and caused as few ripples as possible😄
Isn't it a pity though that your DD thinks that engineers have to be boys?

But that's not unusual, as this 2024 article from.. that well-known source of data on gender stereotyping, Stoke On Trent Live (it just came up first on Google) shows:
Eye-opening video shows gender stereotyping among children when it comes to careers - Stoke-on-Trent Live

It just goes to show that the battle to let little kids just be whatever they want to be, rather than what they should be as a stereotyped boy or girl, is far from won.

A clock that makes breakfast sounds wonderful, if your DD makes one, I'm first on the waiting list to buy it😄
Seriously, though - I hope she gets a chance to get hands-on and make lots of interesting things from Lego and kits and things like that. It's great for little girls to learn how to handle screwdrivers and bolts and nuts and that kind of thing early - useful skills if they go for a 'non-traditional' job later, as was my case, or even just doing jobs around the house.

2in2022twoyearson · 16/03/2025 08:58

Follow up on this. My daughter brought up this book in conversation about what she's doing on school. Now they've finished reading it they're planning writing their own story based on it. DD story is Max is an engineer. All about making an alarm clock that makes breakfast. She read this in her Lego gadgets book and has been wanting to make one at home, I said I wouldn't know how. At a science museum recently someone told her she'd be a good enjeneer and she was happy about that. They do have a lot of girl power type books and topic at school eg the first woman to fly a plane. I guess this book is for balence. On top of the girls in STEM, they have boys into fashion. But she still thinks an enjeneer should be a boy. 😂

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ExtraordinaryMachine1 · 01/03/2025 13:48

2in2022twoyearson · 01/03/2025 10:04

Thanks @ExtraordinaryMachine1 her school encourages us to buy books for the class.

Brill! In which case, definitely get a copy of My Body Is Me for home and one for school - it's loads better than Julian Is A Mermaid anyway.

Other books if you read chapter books at home:

  • Woof by Allan Ahlberg (boy inadvertently turns into dog, fun and peril, is still boy really)
  • Bill's New Frock by Anne Fine (boy inadvertently wears dress, learns stuff, is still boy)

Another sideways thought: how about encouraging dressing-up at home? My children are teens and young adults now, but we always had a proper old-fashioned dressing-up box at home mainly populated with stuff from jumble sales. None of my kids' friends had dressing-up boxes at home, and it was always the first thing visiting children got out for all of the primary school years. Impending World Book Day is a case in point: you can pretend to be who you like, you're still you underneath!
(Reckon I was the only mum at school who loved World Book Day - I loved helping my kids really thoroughly read their characters and work out costumes and accessories. I do miss those days!)

Sadly none of these ideas have helped my offspring, who range from thinking it's bonkers to completely stewed in this ideology, but hopefully gender ideology will have done a runner by the time your little one is much older. 🙏

Shortshriftandlethal · 01/03/2025 10:12

Let's not forget the premier child trans organisation is called 'Mermaids'. I'm pretty certain that the autor of the book was trying to convey a trans message.

If not the concept of merman or merboy could have been introduced. Why shouldn't boys also be able to dress up and to swim about with a fish tail?

2in2022twoyearson · 01/03/2025 10:04

Thanks @ExtraordinaryMachine1 her school encourages us to buy books for the class.

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ExtraordinaryMachine1 · 01/03/2025 09:27

I've never been quite sure what I think about Julian is a Mermaid, so understand where you're coming from. But how about discussing the topic via some other books at home?

  • My Body is Me! (buy one for home, another for school? "oops, I ordered two! Would you like it?")
  • Dogger (old-fashioned dressing-up, sensitive boy who loves his cuddly toy, girl who is sporty)
  • Doug the Bug is probably a bit young, but I quite like how it models boy-boy friendship
  • Yellow Bird, Black Spider. Features living imaginatively and also realism. Short and very funny.
Hmm, that's all for now. There must be some other good ones, will have a think.
guinnessguzzler · 01/03/2025 09:07

Re: interpretation of children's books, I think this is similar to Brenda is a Sheep. Brenda is a wolf who pretends to be a sheep, initially to get close to the sheep so she can eat them. By the end [SPOILER] she and the sheep are all friends and she hasn't eaten them ... yet! I know people think it is TRA propaganda but I can't read it as anything other than gender critical. It is so obvious that Brenda is a wolf and everyone knows that, even when they're saying, 'After all, Brenda is a sheep'. I read it to my kids (every child in Scotland received it one year, of course!) and at the end asked them if Brenda was really a sheep. Can you guess their answer?!

I do have concerns about the message that because the sheep budged up and were nice to Brenda she decided not to eat them but equally it's clear what her original intention was and that she is still very much a wolf. I think it's likely with a lot of these books, if you buy the bullshit you will find it convincing but if you don't it may well serve to reinforce your gender critical view. Because rainbows, sparkles and mermaid tails aren't actually going to convince most sane people that humans can transform into mermaids or change their sex. Or that a wolf in sheep's clothing is anything but that.

MarieDeGournay · 01/03/2025 00:32

Guess who it was in 2018... Our pal Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer 😒

Neil Garman?? Get outta here! You're bustin' my chops [as they say in Coney Island]Grin
That's an amazing coincidence - like there's a wormhole between two different threadsConfused

Outer Space Loop GIF by Xbox
RightThenFred · 28/02/2025 23:33

MarieDeGournay · 28/02/2025 16:39

I googled it: Julián Is a Mermaid - Wikipedia
It says it was originally going to be about drag queens not mermaids, so... phew!

If he remains a boy-mermaid [let's not get hung up on the merminology] you could use it to emphasise that boys can do anything, and girls can do anything, any child can dress up as a mermaid, of course it's just dressing up isn't it? they are still a little boy or a little girl, but didn't they have fun pretending to be a
mermaid for a little while?

Gosh I didn't realise I could be so Machiavellian!😄

Wow... From that wiki page:

"Love's initial plan was to have Julián meet with drag queens on their way to a drag ball, inspired by RuPaul's Drag Race, but in an interview with PinkNews, she said she changed the characters to mermaids, as her research uncovered the mythical creature's significance to transgender people: "There's something about mermaids. Who knows if that's because they're magical creatures who can live between two realities or because they don't have any genitals."[3]

Beyond parody! I bet her agent was glad, though. Mermaids are a much easier sell to parents. And to children.

Completely by the by, I also clicked the link to find out what the Coney Island Mermaid Parade is, and apparently it's a real event in which they get a couple of celebs to be crowned mermaid king and queen. Guess who it was in 2018... Our pal Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer 😒

MarieDeGournay · 28/02/2025 23:05

RightThenFred · 28/02/2025 22:43

From memory, I was disappointed to find out that the author does consider this a trans book. The actual book reads like the opposite, but somehow the author sees herself as a champion of genderism. I think.

Well it looks like it started out as a trans-ish book about a little boy wanting to dress up as a drag queen, but it went merperson instead, fortunately.

I think it's probably not worth arguing that a boy would become a merboy/man not a mermaid, 'mermaid' is a fairly neutral word because 'maid' is out of circulation as meaning 'girl'.

And there was another point I wished to make ... oh yes - and also they don't actually exist - but don't tell the OP's DD😧

Let's just assume that the fish part is sex/gender neutral, and a boy or a girl could tack themselves on interchangeably, and the sum of the parts would be assigned the sex - and/or gender - of the human part.

Apart from Ethel sui generis Merman, as my learned friend DalzielOrNoDalzielAndDontPascoe points out.

I hope that clarifies this complex issue. I'm so glad I majored in Merminology and can be of service when controversies like this ariseGrin
OP - when you read the book yourself, you can see if there's anything that can't be explained away to your little DD by 'that's just because mermaids are magic'Smile

RightThenFred · 28/02/2025 22:43

From memory, I was disappointed to find out that the author does consider this a trans book. The actual book reads like the opposite, but somehow the author sees herself as a champion of genderism. I think.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/02/2025 18:06

magicnumber1 · 28/02/2025 17:42

In my opinion it's a lovely book with beautiful illustrations. Julian doesn't change genders. He just dresses like a mermaid.

Yes. It's a shame that parents have to be suspicious of children's literature. But sadly when a number of dodgy transactivists have abused children's literature to promote a niche adult ideology at young children, it's right that parents are sceptical and double check the nature of these books.

Transgender Trend have written about this - including the unforgivable grooming of toddlers into accepting sex change:

www.transgendertrend.com/trans-picture-books-little-children/

Chersfrozenface · 28/02/2025 17:52

DalzielOrNoDalzielAndDontPascoe · 28/02/2025 17:36

So would his family members be his merkin?

Snigger.

magicnumber1 · 28/02/2025 17:42

In my opinion it's a lovely book with beautiful illustrations. Julian doesn't change genders. He just dresses like a mermaid.