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Original poster

Germany: Not voting for women's rights...

112 replies

Delphin · 21/02/2025 07:59

(evil thread title, I know :-) )

On Sunday, there are national (Bundestag) elections in Germany. I have been worrying and thinking about who to vote for for weeks.

My priorities were, in that order:

  1. Women's rights: I didn't want to vote for a party that put the Self-ID law in its current form into the law book. That took Greens, Socialdemocrats and Liberals out of the race.
  2. "Debt Brake" (constitutional brake on investions out of state debt). It needs to go, or at least heavily reformed, to get Germany out of the economic slump. That took the Christian Democrats out.
  3. Defence and the Ukraine: More investions into the Army, and a realistic policy about Russia, more help for Ukraine.

I had decided on voting for the Christian Democrats for the first time in my life, despite #2, because of #1 and #3.
Then Munich and Riyadh happened.

I will be voting Greens, as they have the security policy plans that align most with my opinions. They also want to reform the debt brake, which needs to happen for the massive investments needed in defence and in infrastructure and industry policies.

For the first time in my life I have the feeling that this is indeed a single issue election. That we are at a point where we need to chance course internationally (and thus nationally), to preserve our society/societies in Europe. I was around for the 1980s Nachrüstungsdebatte (debate on more medium range missiles to be stationed in Germany), but it never felt this acute, even though I was a teen/twen then. I cannot in good conscience "punish" the Greens or Social Democrats for the SelfID law though withdrawing my vote, while Europe is in turmoil (well, the Social Democrats deserve to be punished for their Ukraine policy so far).

I feel like a traitor, although I know that a "punishment" vote won't make a difference as the law is already in power. It's now grassroots work to inform people about its problems and getting it reformed and partly rescinded (the part that basically defined sex out of German law books, and therefore changed all laws that concern women as a sex class). I am looking for a way to get involved (but as I am away from the big cities, there aren't many options in real life).

How do other German voters feel about this? (I know you're out there :-) ) .

OP posts:
givememarmite · 21/02/2025 13:42

@Angryexpat your point about the bias of the wahlomat is very true, it was a lazy to get some help making a decision. It's only my second time voting in Germany, in the last general election it was a much easier decision for me.

givememarmite · 21/02/2025 13:39

I’m glad I don’t live in this woman-hating hellhole right now but would like to come back at some point.

It certainly doesn't feel like a woman-hating hellhole living here right now, but it definitely feels like an Ausländer-hating place so that is definitely influencing my decision/my priority just now.

(I didn't realise this thread was started on the feminism board when I first replied, but understand now why the self ID issue is so important to most people replying here Smile)

Original poster
Delphin · 21/02/2025 12:47

@givememarmite : "Anyway, I will be voting for the SPD."

They used to be my go-to vote (I even was a member in the 1980s-90s). But concerning Ukraine and Russia their stance is not something I can agree with (and have been critical of for a while). So Greens it is, while holding my nose.

OP posts:
Angryexpat · 21/02/2025 12:24

Voting decisions are very personal. I wouldn’t trust the Wahl-o-mat as I don’t know what sort of built-in biases it has but actually read the party programmes.

For me, voting SPD or Green is out of the question as they have harmed women. The SPD is the party that legalised prostitution 20 years ago. The Greens have form for being infiltrated by people with paraphilic sexual interests, back in the 80s it was men with a sexual interest in children, today it’s men like Markus Ganserer. It’s the ultimate, selfish, prissy, bourgeois boomer party and I’d like to see it consigned to the dustbin of history but that’s just my opinion. Their energy policies have deindustrialised and weakened the country, too.

Also, neither party is done with embedding gender ideology to the detriment of women, they both support changing the constitution to include ‘gender identity’. Which is nuts and dangerous.

Having read the party programme, the CDU is the only option. I am not voting for a smaller party as the one thing the country needs is less fragmentation. As for the AfD, they have neo-Nazi elements and their capacity to govern is a big question mark but one of them denounced self-ID in the Bundestag in a clear, coherent fashion and I for one was grateful for that. The country has so many problems, it beggars belief that the coalition prioritised this crazy law. I’m glad I don’t live in this woman-hating hellhole right now but would like to come back at some point.

ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 21/02/2025 12:06

@Delphin I completely agree. Sadly, it seems to be all that people understand…

givememarmite · 21/02/2025 10:03

Igneococcus · 21/02/2025 08:06

I can't vote anymore (more than 25 years out of the country) and I don't know who I'd vote for if I could.
I have the impression, especially after Magdeburg, Aschaffenburg and Muenchen, for the majority of people it will be foremost about immigration. Women's rights aren't taken into consideration for this election.

Edited

I agree with you here, for the majority it has become about immigration. I would love to see a breakdown of how much time was spent talking about immigration in all the TV debates they had 🙄 and how little on the many other important issues.

Anyway, I will be voting for the SPD. No chance that the CDU would get my vote now (although if I had been allowed to vote when Merkel was head of the party it might have been different!)
Die Linke was actually my top match when I did the Wahl-o-mat but I'm going with a strategic vote this time.

Original poster
Delphin · 21/02/2025 09:45

@ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly :"Hopefully current developments start to wake people up to this. "

I hate that we will have to wait until something negative happens, to take action. It's not like it is about the Solidaritätszuschlag (taxes to be invested in eastern Germany) or the access for women to army careers. In this, in some cases people will get hurt :-(.

OP posts:
ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 21/02/2025 08:49

I sympathise. We face many threats. You can only do what you can. It looks like court action is the only thing that works - eg bringing an argument that the law is unconstitutional (in violation of the Grundgesetz) on the grounds that the whole notion of privileging a subjective gender to permit a “trans” status which erodes sex based rights is in itself discrimination on the grounds of sex.. which I would argue is the case given that the detriment eg increased risk of assault and potentially pregnancy only ever goes one way - against us women.

That’s a fundamental objection to the whole concept and I think it’s one we should be making more of. Hopefully current developments start to wake people up to this. To me it’s so obvious!

Original poster
Delphin · 21/02/2025 08:43

Current polls show the CDU very slightly climbing, as well as the very left Linke (who are now clear above the 5% line, cutoff for the Bundestag). Linke voters seem to come out of the Undecided group? Greens are losing votes since January.
https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/umfragen-bundestagswahl-neuwahl-wahltrend
You can also see a bump in AfD results in January, which is the effect @Igneococcus and @MrGHardy notes, people voting for the party shouting loudest about changes (actually most of the other parties are working on changes to asylum and immigration regulations as well - I think they see that the current policies/real actions are untenable in the long term, socially and economically)

OP posts:
MrGHardy · 21/02/2025 08:36

Igneococcus · 21/02/2025 08:06

I can't vote anymore (more than 25 years out of the country) and I don't know who I'd vote for if I could.
I have the impression, especially after Magdeburg, Aschaffenburg and Muenchen, for the majority of people it will be foremost about immigration. Women's rights aren't taken into consideration for this election.

Edited

I did not actually know that, and makes it lucky that I registered with my parents in between undergrad and postgrad for a few months, because otherwise I'd be coming up on this for the next elections.

And yes, which to be fair was long overdue. For better or worse, this topic is a key topic to many people and major parties ignored what a good chunk of the population believe and feel on this topic and while I don't think this should make people vote for a party like the AfD, one can't deny that in reality that is exactly what happened.

MrGHardy · 21/02/2025 08:33

Me too.

I was for the first time, while not as far as you, thinking whether I should actually consider CDU. However, they came out 2nd lowest (only behind AfD, for the major parties) for me in terms of political positions as measured by the Wahl-O-Mat (as last time really). And while Merz has come out in support of Trump's "there are only two genders" act, that man does not believe women should have full autonomy over their bodies. So not like he would be a beacon for women's rights anyway.

fwiw I was considering Volt but they are full on the gender ideology train and likely would be a wasted vote, so I went for (postal) Greens as well.

Igneococcus · 21/02/2025 08:06

I can't vote anymore (more than 25 years out of the country) and I don't know who I'd vote for if I could.
I have the impression, especially after Magdeburg, Aschaffenburg and Muenchen, for the majority of people it will be foremost about immigration. Women's rights aren't taken into consideration for this election.