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Original poster

‘DIY swab kits? It’s better than doing nothing’: the controversial scheme to tackle rape on campus

36 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/02/2025 19:26

... Enough says it was launched following advice from police, criminologists, lawyers and psychologists. It has since handed out 7,000 free kits to students at Bristol University and the University of the West of England (UWE) and says that 270 rapes have been reported to its online platform so far, and seven kits have been sent for lab testing.

Its aim is to sell the kits at £20 each to universities, schools and workplaces. “Our DNA kits give power to survivors and deter perpetrators,” its orange leaflets promise. The issue is: how?

Every major organisation involved in tackling sexual violence is strongly opposed to self-swabbing. Enough’s critics include the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC), Bristol University, UWE, Rape Crisis England and Wales, Bristol city council and the Faculty of Forensic and Legal Medicine (FFLM), a charity that maintains professional standards. They say that self-swabs do not always provide reliable evidence that can be used in criminal proceedings and may not be admissible in court, and that, if survivors self-swab instead of interacting with services such as the police or NHS, they miss out on help such as psychological and forensic assessment – which would be provided at a sexual assault referral centre (Sarc).

There are 55 independent Sarcs in England, offering victims – whether or not they decide to report to the police – therapeutic care, medical and forensic examination including emergency contraception, and testing for sexually transmitted infections. Sarcs arrange counselling and address safeguarding, and can also offer vital tests for collecting the jigsaw pieces that may lead to a conviction, such as toxicology results and clothing fibres.

Is their opposition justified? Or can Enough, as it hopes, help the 75% of students who are sexually assaulted and “do nothing”, according to young people’s sexual health charity Brook? ...

Only a few paragraphs from quite a long detailed article by Yvonne Roberts in the Observer https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/feb/16/diy-swab-kits-scheme-campus-rape

OP posts:
Daisy12Maisie · 18/02/2025 18:23

The tests haven't been trialled in court so whether they stand up evidentially is yet to be decided.
If someone attended a Sarc the samples could be used in a future trial or just stored if they didn't want to report to police. They would be given support at a sarc as well.

The fact they are charging for these kits shows it's not an act of kindness. It's a business idea. It's not in the users best interest.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 18/02/2025 17:33

I do think we could use some external pressure on police to improve their approach to rape in this way.

But we also need to do something to let women know there are centres where they can go and get this done professionally, get support and not be forced to talk to the police. ie SARCs Why dont women know about them?

But the DNA kits seem like theatre.

This is an example of why feminist initiatives grow. It seems every generation of women only want to support something their age group had set up.

Although as I have said up thread, it maybe that younger women are now so lacking in belie in anything changing, that theatre seems as useful as anything else.

OP posts:
RawBloomers · 18/02/2025 04:32

Sorry. Pressed post too soon.

I do get the idea of collecting accusations from lots of women to develop a case against a serial rapist. But most of the time women know the person they accuse - the database of accusations is a great idea. I do think we could use some external pressure on police to improve their approach to rape in this way. But the DNA kits seem like theatre.

is there an exemption from needing consent to process DNA in these circumstances?

RawBloomers · 18/02/2025 04:19

Except it isn’t useful evidence- because all you have is (potentially) a DNA profile. You don’t have, and can’t require, a way to match that with the person you accuse.

What are you supposed to do with it?

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 18/02/2025 01:27

RawBloomers · 17/02/2025 22:51

I don’t see how their approach could have any benefit. If you use the kit and send it off to be processed- what then? You get back a DNA profile? How does that do anything for you as a victim of sexual assault?

Its evidence as to confirming who you say has raped you.

As spelt out in the article this is in fact the service offered by SARCs (which to few women know about). If you have been raped you can go to a SARC without having to talk to the police.

There qualified staff can take a swab etc., and store the results. Sometimes this shows there is someone who is a serial rapist.

I think in the instance when a case goes to court reference can be made to evidence that other women have accused the same person.

For the students if they dont want to go to the police or SARCs is would make sense to keep a database of the DNA or whatever results they get and it might indicate that there is not in fact a wide spread attitude among young men at universities, but in fact a small group of young men who are the repeat perpetrators.

I have a horrible or maybe sad feeling that many young women dont want to or refuse to believe that what older women have set up, or said would be a good thing, just isn't. So when presented with something that seems more of their generation they accept that without thinking what the point of it is.

Or maybe just the act of using the swab makes them feel empowered??

Dont Universities themselves, or Student Unions run information sessions for new students about sexual violence.

OP posts:
RawBloomers · 17/02/2025 22:51

I don’t see how their approach could have any benefit. If you use the kit and send it off to be processed- what then? You get back a DNA profile? How does that do anything for you as a victim of sexual assault?

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 17/02/2025 22:11

igivein · 17/02/2025 21:35

I’m not saying doing nothing is a good option, and I agree that we need to get to the source of the problem (men and their attitudes), but giving a woman a kit to swab herself is absolutely pointless.
There are specific procedures that have to be adhered to so the evidence would be admissible in court. The person who obtains the sample has to be a medical professional who can establish their forensic credentials in court. They have to be able to guarantee exactly where the swab touched so the offence can be correctly made out.
So what you’re going to have is a woman who’s already traumatised, putting herself through obtaining the samples (which wouldn’t be fun) only to be told ‘sorry, we can’t use those, you might as well not have bothered.’

I know and in fact the article spells this out.

And that's why I am saying that even knowing this (young) women are so disillusioned they are going for this.

I was wondering if they are posting on social media that they have taken a swab just to let some man know they didn't listen.

ie this is all they have left to say they did object.

OP posts:
popefully · 17/02/2025 21:50

Thanks, this is really interesting. I hope it evolves into something that can bring about change. I don't know much about dna testing but from the article and pp it sounds potentially an own goal.

igivein · 17/02/2025 21:35

I’m not saying doing nothing is a good option, and I agree that we need to get to the source of the problem (men and their attitudes), but giving a woman a kit to swab herself is absolutely pointless.
There are specific procedures that have to be adhered to so the evidence would be admissible in court. The person who obtains the sample has to be a medical professional who can establish their forensic credentials in court. They have to be able to guarantee exactly where the swab touched so the offence can be correctly made out.
So what you’re going to have is a woman who’s already traumatised, putting herself through obtaining the samples (which wouldn’t be fun) only to be told ‘sorry, we can’t use those, you might as well not have bothered.’

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 17/02/2025 19:53

igivein · 17/02/2025 19:37

I worked for a lot of years as a CSI. I’ve dealt with lots of sexual offences and attended many forensic medical examinations.
There is so much wrong with this idea that ‘doing nothing’ would almost certainly be better.

The impression I got from the article which I think did make an effort to speak to a range of organisations etc., was that (in universities) young women feel so unsupported, have no hope of authorities supporting them, that this DIY approach is the only answer.

Which is awful.

And as in the article I start a thread for re "consent", there is never any in depth look at the source of the problem, ie men.

OP posts:
igivein · 17/02/2025 19:37

I worked for a lot of years as a CSI. I’ve dealt with lots of sexual offences and attended many forensic medical examinations.
There is so much wrong with this idea that ‘doing nothing’ would almost certainly be better.