Thread for discussing how women can ask NHS for female HCPs

OuterSpaceCadet · 2025-02-13T09:07:47+00:00

As suggested on the Sandie Peggie thread, a separate space for discussion.

CuriousAlien · 07/03/2025 16:57

Thanks for the thread.

I've had two appointments recently (intimate examination) where my gp practice insisted I either have a chaperone or go to a different site so I could see a female practitioner. It was definitely for their benefit as I don't actually mind who I see and I told them that.

Now I'm wondering about the madness of the introduction of gender identity into the mix.

If I said I identify as male would they still insist I have a chaperone?

And if the supposedly female doctor I went to see was actually male identifying as female would they be ok with that?

I don't even want to think about how they might deal with someone (patient or doctor) who fluctuates...

Original poster

OuterSpaceCadet · 05/03/2025 14:30

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg1vjdx9peo

Reviving thread because I think this pilot scheme looks interesting.

A QR code for HCP to scan detailing any trauma a patient has suffered.

Personally I find it very hard to advocate for myself beyond "I need a female HCP" and sometimes "I have PTSD". Many health care staff do get it, IME, but sometimes they really don't. I recall a (very sweet, well-meaning and non threatening) nurse kept asking what I was so worried about during an ECG. I mean, as if talking about my trauma wasn't going to adversely affect the ECG results!! The situation was fine, because despite her clumsy words she really was a lovely human (and she was of course female!). But a different nurse who behaved similarly could have been disastrous and rendered the ECG pointless.

A woman, who is blurred, holding a white trauma card in front of her. The card advertises the cardholder is a trauma survivor. It alerts people to this fact and tells them how they can help.

NHS urged to rollout QR trauma cards after Essex trial

There was "significant uptake" in the pilot and 15,000 were distributed, Healthwatch says.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg1vjdx9peo

OP posts:

Binglebong · 22/02/2025 21:12

PepeParapluie · 22/02/2025 19:28

There’s not much time left to respond but there’s a questionnaire up about experiences of treatment for women’s health conditions because of a forthcoming parliamentary debate.

You can respond here

https://ukparliament.shorthandstories.com/cet-womens-health/

Thank you, answered that.

PepeParapluie · 22/02/2025 19:28

There’s not much time left to respond but there’s a questionnaire up about experiences of treatment for women’s health conditions because of a forthcoming parliamentary debate.

You can respond here

https://ukparliament.shorthandstories.com/cet-womens-health/

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 21/02/2025 11:54

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/02/2025 09:36

Good idea for a thread.

I posted this on one of the Peggie threads but they move so fast it's hard to find it. Worth noting this hear, just a part of what women might want to do in their particular area/NHS trust etc. even before you find yourself in a situation where you could be vulnerable or unconscious or scared etc.

https://x.com/allanpetrie91/status/1889591533013242177?s=46

"In response to NHS Taysides Intimate Personal Care and Chaperoning Policy (Adult and Child). i have sent this letter.

Subject: Grave Concerns Regarding Policy and Legal Compliance (Intimate Personal Care and Chaperoning Policy (Adult and Child)

Dear Ms Connor

I am writing to express my deep concern regarding the information contained within NHS Tayside Intimate Personal Care and Chaperoning Policy (Adult and Child).
This policy appears to be an ill-thought out, politically motivated initiative that lacks respect and dignity for some of the most vulnerable members of our society. It is shocking and unacceptable that such a policy would be proposed, given the clear breaches of legal protections that it entails.
Breach of Legal Protections
The policy in question purports to align with existing legal frameworks, but a careful examination reveals that it in fact contradicts and undermines fundamental legal rights. Specifically, it appears to breach the following:

1.The Equality Act 2010:
This legislation provides distinct protections based on Sex and Gender Reassignment as separate protected characteristics. Policies that fail to differentiate between the two may result in unlawful discrimination against individuals whose rights are specifically protected under this law.

2.The Human Rights Act 1998:

This Act guarantees the right to privacy, dignity, and non-discrimination. The implementation of policies that disregard biological sex in favour of gender identity alone could infringe on the rights of women, particularly in healthcare settings where sex-based protections are vital.

3.The NHS Constitution:

The guiding principles of the National Health Service require patient centred care that respects the specific needs of individuals. A failure to recognise and accommodate the unique medical and biological needs of individuals based on sex undermines these commitments.

4.Offences Against the Person Act 1861
It is essential to remember that medical professionals, like all individuals, are bound by the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. While they are legally permitted to carry out procedures that would otherwise constitute assault, such as physical examinations, injections, and surgeries, this is only lawful with the informed consent of the patient.
Without such consent, any physical intervention, regardless of intent, constitutes assault under the law. This includes a woman’s explicit refusal to be examined by a biological male doctor, requesting a same sex doctor is a valid and lawful exercise of bodily autonomy. Any attempt to proceed without consent, or to pressure a patient into accepting an unwanted examiner, is a breach of legal and ethical standards and may constitute criminal assault under this Act.

Sex v Gender: A Crucial Distinction.

It is particularly alarming that a health service policy does not differentiate between Sex and Gender, given that both are distinct and have different legal and medical implications.

Sex is a biological classification (male or female) based on reproductive anatomy and genetics. It is immutable and has direct implications for medical care, such as differences in disease risk, drug metabolism, and specific healthcare needs.
Gender is a social and psychological identity that may or may not align with an individual’s biological sex. While gender identity could be a consideration for personal and social recognition, it does not replace or override the biological realities that must be considered in healthcare.

Differential Legal Rights
The legal framework recognises and protects sex and gender separately.
Sex-Based Protections: Women have the right to single sex spaces in certain contexts (e.g., hospital wards, prisons, and changing facilities) under the Equality Act 2010.
Gender-Based Protections: The Gender Recognition Act 2004 allows individuals with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) to be legally recognised as their acquired gender, but this does not erase sex-based rights or override biological considerations in all circumstances.

By failing to uphold these legal distinctions, the policy in question risks violating the rights of vulnerable groups, particularly women and those with specific medical needs based on biological sex.

I urge you to reconsider the implementation of this policy considering its legal and ethical shortcomings. Policies within the health service must be based on clear, lawful, and evidence-based considerations that respect the dignity, privacy, and rights of all individuals, particularly the most vulnerable in our society.

I would appreciate a response outlining how these concerns will be addressed and what steps will be taken to ensure that legal obligations are met. I look forward to your prompt attention to this serious matter.

Yours sincerely,

Allan Petrie
Chairperson
Glenlaw House parent/carer support group"

But equally I think it's important to think how we can 'arm' ourselves with whatever information we can to rely upon in 'the moment' when faced with an HCP like Upton or his many supporters. So I'm hoping someone will post something that helps with that too.

I know this thread has moved on but I noted this update/response to what I posted earlier.

The Intimate Personal Care & Chaperoning Policy is under review following the above letter:

https://x.com/allanpetrie91/status/1892900366116605965?s=46

"UPDATE on NHS Tayside Intimate care and Chaperonine policy

Reply from NHS Tayside re their intimate care and Chaperone policy, after my concerns they are now undertaking a review of the policy"

thenosiesttermagant · 21/02/2025 00:01

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 19:03

I had a hospital appointment this morning and I noticed this sign in the waiting room. Although I thought I knew what it meant, I wasn't exactly sure what it meant, but I assumed that all staff on duty would be female + transwomen or male + transmen.

There was one female nurse (in a dress) and 4 male HCP's that didn't look trans (and very unlikely that all 4 would be).

I wasn't bothered about receiving single sex care because the procedure wasn't too intimate but as I was very confused by the claim that all staff on duty identify as the same gender, I decided to query it after the procedure was finished.
A male HCA came wandering through so I decided to ask him. He looked at it and said 'oh I think it's badly worded and just means that we treat everyone the same'. I replied no it clearly states that you are all identifying as the same gender. Him- must be a mistake, no trans here' and he took the sign away. I mentioned it to the female nurse when she came to remove my cannula and she didn't seem to have seen it, and she told me to mention it to reception. Reception didn't know what I was talking about either (or didn't want to get into the subject) and told me to go to the main reception.
There , I encountered another member of staff who looked at me rather blankly and suggested I fill in a feedback form.

I wrote as clearly as I could at the time because I was pretty tired and in pain, staring that the sign was confusing, the staff present didn't seem to be aware of it, I asked if they have a single sex care policy and how/if I could in future ask for single sex care without being a accused of transphobia.
I realised I'm rambling a bit now, but the whole thing was confusing. I was expecting to encounter a transperson (not that it would have mattered on this occasion) and there were just a mixed bunch of males and females, none of whom seemed aware of the sign in the first place- weird.

Edited

That sign is truly awful. Who cares what the staff identify as? They are paid to do a job properly not wang on about their identities. This stuff is so insidious.

As far as I can tell it's pretty much saying 'our adherence to an ideology matters more than doing our jobs'. Absolutely outrageous especially as the NHS is taxpayer funded.

It doesn't even make sense, definitely not clear. A lot of people will have no clue what 'gender' is. Beggars belief that no-one in the production of that sign thought 'what the hell is this actually saying, and will anyone understand it' before they even got to 'and is it professional and appropriate' (to which the answer is no). And that NHS cash was put towards making it. Definitely not value for money for patients.

Well done for challenging it @XXylophonic especially when you were being treated and therefore in a vulnerable situation.

Enough4me · 20/02/2025 22:48

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 20:37

I think a better sign would be 'if you require same sex care, please speak to a member of staff. If we can't offer this today, you may have to rebook your appointment'.

Or would that be considered transphobic?
These are the questions I want answering

Yes, that would make sense. I want to feel welcome to ask for a female HP when having potentially initimate care.

Bunpea · 20/02/2025 20:55

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 19:03

I had a hospital appointment this morning and I noticed this sign in the waiting room. Although I thought I knew what it meant, I wasn't exactly sure what it meant, but I assumed that all staff on duty would be female + transwomen or male + transmen.

There was one female nurse (in a dress) and 4 male HCP's that didn't look trans (and very unlikely that all 4 would be).

I wasn't bothered about receiving single sex care because the procedure wasn't too intimate but as I was very confused by the claim that all staff on duty identify as the same gender, I decided to query it after the procedure was finished.
A male HCA came wandering through so I decided to ask him. He looked at it and said 'oh I think it's badly worded and just means that we treat everyone the same'. I replied no it clearly states that you are all identifying as the same gender. Him- must be a mistake, no trans here' and he took the sign away. I mentioned it to the female nurse when she came to remove my cannula and she didn't seem to have seen it, and she told me to mention it to reception. Reception didn't know what I was talking about either (or didn't want to get into the subject) and told me to go to the main reception.
There , I encountered another member of staff who looked at me rather blankly and suggested I fill in a feedback form.

I wrote as clearly as I could at the time because I was pretty tired and in pain, staring that the sign was confusing, the staff present didn't seem to be aware of it, I asked if they have a single sex care policy and how/if I could in future ask for single sex care without being a accused of transphobia.
I realised I'm rambling a bit now, but the whole thing was confusing. I was expecting to encounter a transperson (not that it would have mattered on this occasion) and there were just a mixed bunch of males and females, none of whom seemed aware of the sign in the first place- weird.

Edited

That sign is utterly confusing. Whoever wrote it is wasting everyone’s time. Well done for querying it!

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 20:37

I think a better sign would be 'if you require same sex care, please speak to a member of staff. If we can't offer this today, you may have to rebook your appointment'.

Or would that be considered transphobic?
These are the questions I want answering

user1471538275 · 20/02/2025 20:37

It's fairly normal to clarify in the NHS service I work in when asking about sex, that we are looking at sex at birth. That's the language I use when asking when necessary or there is an apparent mismatch of details.

I am comfortable in explaining why it is necessay to know their sex at birth for the purposes of assessing their symptoms and ensuring the correct parameters are used to help them.

I would say that I would like care from a female practitioner whose sex at birth was female/woman.

It should be unnecessary, but it might ensure clarity.

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 20:32

Looking at the sign again I've just noticed the small blue circle that appears to have a drawing of a male doctor? So maybe they mean male gender today. The female nurse was most definitely female though. I'm clearly over thinking this 😬

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 20:27

That's it really. The sign is clumsy and ambiguous. It's not clear what they mean and as such, what would you be objecting to? That everyone is the same gender? Identifies as? Which gender? Do they mean sex? Do they mean bio + trans?
I can't object to something if I don't know what I'm objecting to.
I may compose a clearer email (than the comments I wrote on the feedback card) and ask them what they are talking about

Enough4me · 20/02/2025 20:20

@XXylophonic It's a confusing sign.
Could it have meant, "everyone here today is saying they are identifying as the gender that matches their sex and not pretending to be the opposite sex"?
As they couldn't have a sign that says, "there is no one working today who pretends to be the opposite sex".

I'm currently putting off booking a smear as I know my clinic have had changes. I asked last time for a female nurse and was told, it's ok we just have women (but now women means unisex).

Liverstreaming · 20/02/2025 20:11

@XXylophonic I think that sign is a very clumsy way of saying "Everyone on duty today is the same sex so, if you want same sex care and you're the other type, you're out of luck. We'll need to rebook. Sorry."

I agree it is incredibly badly worded.

And also inaccurate, given there were both male and females working that day. I bet it had been hanging around, possibly for weeks, and noone had really noticed it til you pointed it out.

lcakethereforeIam · 20/02/2025 20:09

I wonder if there's a missing '...as they were assigned at birth'? Stupid sign regardless, just causes confusion. Well done for taking the trouble to query (queery?) it.

Hope you're feeling better soon.

Liverstreaming · 20/02/2025 20:01

Update: I had a reply from a caseworker in my MP's office saying they understand my concerns and they've raised them with the Department for Health and Social Care. They anticipate a response within 20 working days.

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 19:16

@Chariothorses I completely agree. There clearly must be trans staff or it wouldn't have been there. It wasn't actually on a wall but in a table next to leaflets. The fact that none of the staff seemed aware of it was odd. I'm inclined to think that none of them wanted to get involved in a discussion about it or say the 'wrong' thing.
Additionally it was a cardiac outpatients clinic. Most of the people waiting were elderly. They probably wouldn't have a clue what the sign even means.
And the fact is, no way were they all identifying as the same gender so it was rather bizarre

Chariothorses · 20/02/2025 19:11

@XXylophonic That sign is shocking. If everyone ' id's as the same gender' if you could be faced with a male or female- which really matters in some circumstance where you need same sex care- and also implies all staff believe in gender woo- which many don't, and would make it a hostile environment for patients too who recognise reality. Thanks for speaking up.

there's a typo in my other post -should be
www.caringaboutdignity.org

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 19:07

Shortly after leaving, I received a generic email. Kind of annoying because I wasn't complaining about the care. Just asking for clarification. Anyway, let's see if they reply

Thread for discussing how women can ask NHS for female HCPs

Chariothorses · 20/02/2025 19:05

The organisation 'Caring About Dignity' has a helpful sample letter (with regards to SS care and consent/ legal requirements ) to send to NHS Trusts/ GPs when you need single sex care/ wards- to go on your notes.

You can also attach it to eg a Living Will (I had to do something similar for my grandmother) so medical staff know.

You may recall the solicitor who was told months ago she couldn't have SS care and it was in the press and raised by Baroness Nicholson. I think she helped write the draft.

Unfortunately I don't have permission to share the letter but the organisation's website is www,caringaboutdignity.org

and you can contact them via email from there. The website also has a section called 'useful things to know' mumsnetters may find helpful.
The link is:
www.caringaboutdignity.org/useful-information/

XXylophonic · 20/02/2025 19:03

I had a hospital appointment this morning and I noticed this sign in the waiting room. Although I thought I knew what it meant, I wasn't exactly sure what it meant, but I assumed that all staff on duty would be female + transwomen or male + transmen.

There was one female nurse (in a dress) and 4 male HCP's that didn't look trans (and very unlikely that all 4 would be).

I wasn't bothered about receiving single sex care because the procedure wasn't too intimate but as I was very confused by the claim that all staff on duty identify as the same gender, I decided to query it after the procedure was finished.
A male HCA came wandering through so I decided to ask him. He looked at it and said 'oh I think it's badly worded and just means that we treat everyone the same'. I replied no it clearly states that you are all identifying as the same gender. Him- must be a mistake, no trans here' and he took the sign away. I mentioned it to the female nurse when she came to remove my cannula and she didn't seem to have seen it, and she told me to mention it to reception. Reception didn't know what I was talking about either (or didn't want to get into the subject) and told me to go to the main reception.
There , I encountered another member of staff who looked at me rather blankly and suggested I fill in a feedback form.

I wrote as clearly as I could at the time because I was pretty tired and in pain, staring that the sign was confusing, the staff present didn't seem to be aware of it, I asked if they have a single sex care policy and how/if I could in future ask for single sex care without being a accused of transphobia.
I realised I'm rambling a bit now, but the whole thing was confusing. I was expecting to encounter a transperson (not that it would have mattered on this occasion) and there were just a mixed bunch of males and females, none of whom seemed aware of the sign in the first place- weird.

Binglebong · 20/02/2025 15:28

I recently have a gynie appointment. In the run up to it i had specified and seen female doctors, I forgot to ask for it to be on the referral. When I got there it was a male doctor (who I'm sure was lovely) and a female nurse. I just couldn't do it, I played it down and said everything was sorted. I'm sure they labeled me as a time waster but I didn't feel comfortable saying why I was refusing and felt it was my own fault for not stating earlier.

I'm a pretty strong woman who will advocate for myself. I will tell people I disagree. But put on the spot like that I just couldn't. I have no history of abuse, I'm not part of a religion that restricts who can see me. I've been topless on a beech on my slimmer days But while I can accept a woman examining me there I cannot a man.

You are vulnerable physically and mentally. There should have been signs saying you can request a female doctor to make it easier so that I could have still been examined. If that had been in place and I had asked and seen a transwoman is don't know what I would have done. I would be massively uncomfortable and doubting myself and I suspect I would have felt forced to go through with it.

It is not consent if you are afraid to say no.

Seriestwo · 20/02/2025 14:27

I think we need to recreate what I saw on Twitter - a sign which is laminated and placed at the bed space saying female only care.

what wording does it need?

”as per the EA 2010 I exercise my right to request for care to be provided only by females. This excludes anyone male who believes themselves to have a gender identity of female.”

could add a bit about including females who think they are males if you don’t mind a few scraggy chin hairs and squeaky voice. I wouldn’t, they are women to me

verysmellyjelly · 15/02/2025 13:48

Of course I'm not saying any woman should have to be afraid or doesn't have the same right to female care. Just that this thread crystallises my deep sense of the wrongness and injustice, as a disabled woman myself.

Sortumn · 15/02/2025 13:47

On chaperones, I had an incident where the female gynaecologist caused pain during her examination and it turned out she'd actually caused further damage to a small graze I'd been unaware of, which then took weeks to heal.

The chaperone compounded the awful experience. I know she was attempting to be soothing but it felt more like being encouraged to quietly put up and shut up by an additional health professional. It didn't feel like she was there for me, it felt like she was there for the doctor.