Pronouns - I’ve peaked 🥺

I got told on here by someone who would describe themselves as ‘pro-trans’ that by using the word transwoman that i agreed that TWAW

I've had endless arguments with people who say variations on "TW are women, it's in the name" - yeah, that's why I don't use your Humpty Dumpty language.

Khelif is male. Khelif has been reported to have the healthy levels of testosterone as a male should have.

If a female person had the testosterone levels of a male person, they would be gravely ill and likely not boxing. Happy to take you through all that.

No one is saying that Khelif is transgender at all. IBA stated clearly that Khelif is XY chromosomal. It has been therefore deduced that Khelif has one of the differences in sex development where they have XY chromosomes and have the ability to use the testosterone that their testes produce.

Khelif has certainly known their medical status since 2023, but likely to have known this from much earlier - such as when Khelif didn't menstruate and instead Khelif's body masculised.

One of Khelif's coaches confirmed that Khelif saw a Parisian Endocrinologist who confirmed the IBA finding.

reduxx.info/khelifs-coach-confirms-problem-with-chromosomes-as-spanish-national-boxing-team-commissioner-reveals-that-khelif-was-considered-too-dangerous-to-train-against-women/

I got a permanent site-wide Reddit ban for saying on the main UK subreddit that men aren't lesbians.

I just managed to dodge one for something similar, I just lurk now.

@Helleofabore @FriedGold32 No, not sarcasm. Imane Khelif is female. She has naturally high testosterone, but that doesn’t make her male. The IBA’s issue with her was hormone levels, not sex. Also, just to add, Imane Khelif is Algerian and Muslim- there's no way she'd be transgender or transitioning in a society where that’s not even accepted or allowed. She’s a woman who’s just dealing with a hormonal issue, not some gender identity crisis...

Imane Khelif has naturally normal testosterone levels for a male. That's because he is a male.

is this sarcasm?

Wait, how does Imane Khelif not respect women? She is a woman. She just has naturally high testosterone... she's not trans or whatever...

Honestly, I wouldn't worry. My kids have been aware of this stuff for years and have always seen right through it.

We spend time talking about self-acceptance at home, particularly when it comes to body type, body image etc, which I can recommend. We are fortunate to have 2 girls and a boy and so the innate physical differences between the sexes have been apparent to them since forever, and as they grow older even more so.

Our eldest especially (year 10) has seen plenty of kids at school change their pronouns from one thing to the other and back again, and recognise that a pre-occupation with words doesn't change reality. My youngest still believes in Santa, and yet recognises that she has one body which can't be swapped for another at will, and which she needs to take care of.

I think there is a generation between me (49) and them which has fallen for this ideology the hardest, but even that will change in time x

It's full of vair vair polite, earnest and well meaning middle class ladies. Many went to all girls private schools. They most definitely haven't had the experience of a teen girl in a council estate school having spotty oiks trying to get photos under the toilet doors.

Editors want to please/placate authors, or at least not cause too many ructions with the red pen, because authors ultimately pay their salaries. And authors can be... mavericks? But a lot of the editors in that group seem to be immersed in a world where they themselves and everyone around them is gender-fluid. They subscribe to the 67 genders, or whatever it is. I've never really thought about this before because I tend to back away slowly when I come up against this stuff but you're right, they are captured. Some aspects of the group are, that is - I'm guessing the old-school US newspapers don't subscribe to it.

I got told on here by someone who would describe themselves as ‘pro-trans’ that by using the word transwoman that i agreed that TWAW

load of bollocks

i am happy to refer to the transpeople i know by the pronouns they prefer, I will not use them for cheating males or rapists etc

i know rationally that this is stupid but this is me at the moment

This is the approach I use which actually can be quite powerful. I never use the word she for any man but I may just overuse their name. Eg 'Lara can say whatever Lara wants but I don't have to agree.' Let the name make the point.

I choke on enforced pronouns. I would genuinely describe the cognitive dissonance as torturous. It does give me some sympathy for those with genuine body dysmorphia - I guess they believe what they believe so strongly that hearing four equals four is their mental torture. The idea that someone else has to take their pain away and live it instead is where my sympathy evaporates. My rage is mainly for a mental health system and political system that validates this.

There is yet hope.

I'm pregnant with my first child. I really worry about this ideology, will it still be in schools in 5 years time when they'd be due to start?

Given that no one will ever address themselves in the third person, and that if I'm in the same room as someone I will just use their name, the obsession over policing pronouns has always seemed like a huge overreach to me. It's pure validation, nothing more.

My kids (10,12 and 14) come home from school with jokes about pronouns these days (a personal favourite being the one about the female non-binary panda who was a 'herbivore'). To my mind once the kids are ridiculing something, the bubble of pomposity has well and truly burst.

Reddit is very good if you need an answer to a specific technical question, as Google just gives you advert list or whatever now. There'll be someone out there on some obscure subreddit very obsessed with your specific issue.

But some of the overall philosophical or social views on there are very different to the actual average normal person, because of who has the most time to spend on Reddit.

The same applies to Wikipedia, unfortunately, on some subjects.

Interesting

Fantasy is their reality.

It's strange that publishing became one of the most captured industries of all. Any thoughts on why?

I work in book editing, and there's a subset of editors that have gone totally bonkers on pronouns (IMO). One of the basic rules of editing has always been consistency. So, you make choices re. spellings etc and stick to them throughout. But now, according to a FB editing group, the done (respectful) thing if someone has several pronouns is to cycle through them in each paragraph. The example given was something like 'Alex likes fantasy fiction but his friends persuaded them to try romance'. I had to read the example twice before I worked out that 'them' wasn't a group. And yet the number one rule of editing is to be understood by your readers. It goes totally against our training.

Reddit is very good if you need an answer to a specific technical question, as Google just gives you advert list or whatever now. There'll be someone out there on some obscure subreddit very obsessed with your specific issue.

But some of the overall philosophical or social views on there are very different to the actual average normal person, because of who has the most time to spend on Reddit.

Reddit was a revelation!

I think it can be quite instructive to recognise the depths of some people's delusional thinking on the trans subs! The reaction to the Upton business is a particularly rich seam.

But along with #NoDebate, these subs are their own worst enemies as they bans outside voices in order to keep the echo-chamber pure. In some ways it's useful to have all this rabid misogynistic reality denying drivel kettled into one area, feeding off itself, while the rest of us wearily set about undoing the remarkable harm this insidious ideology has caused both to its adherents and female victims.

That's the aim with the pronouns, to make you feel more sympathetic.

At a surface level it seems like it's just 'being kind'. But really, it is requiring you to make a public affirmation that you agree with their belief system.

I remember I saw a big brother section, where everyone was going found saying their pronouns. The social pressure to conform to this must be pretty significant. I grew up in a very religious household - it really reminded me of saying grace, or everyone saying amen at the end, just the feel of the whole scene.

If I'm in a situation, and I have been, where it's tricky in terms of pronouns, e.g I'm expected to use the wrong ones, I'll avoid using pronouns altogether. I don't exist to affirm other people's views of themselves.

Why don't I get to choose my own title? Why can't I be Dr Blob, Lady Blob if that's what I identify as? Yet in the case of this, there is obvious physical evidence to the opposite - an obvious 'he' demanding to be called 'she'. Kowtowing to him means you are having to go along with his belief system, and state obvious falsehoods as if they are reality.

Girls I think are much more socialised to be kind, be nice, be pleasing to others, and it means we are far less likely to act in our own interests. That's why women get way more vitriol when they make a stand on this issue, they are breaking a social expectation of them.

Agreed. Particularly I can think of a few posters I interact with regularly who would report the shit out of my posts if I used correct sex pronouns. They have already told me in threads they report me for using ‘male people’. They are that incensed that people don’t comply to their group’s language conventions.

@Helleofabore I am still wary on some threads

It looks like DU is fine but not sure about all cases