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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My 14 year old daughter has been sharing school changing rooms, including swimming, with a male. The school never told me, or her. What would you do?

358 replies

SernieBanders · 07/02/2025 09:51

I believe this to be a failure of safeguarding and a risk to every female in the school.

I do not believe the school can give consent in any way, all children are under the age of 16, so they cannot either.

The school in question has adopted the Brighton Trans Inclusion Toolkit which actively encourages males and females to share spaces, including sleeping, without any supervision. They also have unisex toilets.

For the record, I believe all gender questioning children should be given full, dignified support for their schooling. However their needs do not supersede safeguarding and dignity of all female pupils.

What would you do? What legislation, guidance, rules would you quote to them? Straight to governors? The police? What?

OP posts:
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alwaysMakingItsofar · 07/02/2025 18:28

veraswaistcoat · 07/02/2025 11:12

@SernieBanders I don't think you should phrase it like that as in " I don't trust a person with a penis around my daughter " . It's easier to attack that. However I 100% agree with you. This is totally wrong and your daughter's rights are being stripped from her. What about her need ? For a safe space? Why should we even be forced to use language like this? Why do others always have to give up their needs and rights for a few others?
I know Brighton. This kind of shite is to be expected. Very keen to see the outcome of your actions.

Which unfortunately brings all their inclusion shite talk back to square 1

arethereanyleftatall · 07/02/2025 18:26

To all the people saying this is outrageous (which of course it is)

Are you not aware that this has been going on in establishments all over the world for about the last five years as a result of 'be kind, let people choose their own pronouns, twaw and you're a bigot if you say otherwise'

Gymrabbit · 07/02/2025 18:24

heyhopotato · 07/02/2025 16:38

I'm really surprised you choose to live in Brighton given your clashes with the culture. It's very well-known for being the most socially progressive and liberal city in the country, it sounds like you have very traditional views and would do best to live and educate your children in a place that shares similar views to yours. There are some more rural areas of East Sussex that would suit you better.

Edited

While I understand and sort of agree with your general point, why would you live in an area that is out of line with your views? the way you have phrased it makes it seem like you think places which encourage males to get their cocks out in front of girls and think that girls who have short hair and like football must be boys are progressive and those who don’t are backward and old fashioned. I’m sure you couldn’t possibly have meant that though, as that would be an utterly ridiculous take.

MotherCariesChickens · 07/02/2025 18:18

This is the most outrageous thing I have read for some time.

I fully support you in taking all steps necessary to safeguard your daughter.

Others can provide better legal advice than I can x

SinnerBoy · 07/02/2025 18:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

alwaysMakingItsofar · 07/02/2025 18:05

they allowed a boy in a girl's uniform to go in the girls dormitory recently on a school trip. No one told or asked the girls parents. The heads are very kind, smiling, even flirty like butterflies to you. The reality is they do what they want and laugh you off

arethereanyleftatall · 07/02/2025 18:05

isn't based on anything other than hating men

I'm not sure how you missed it @JustAskingThisQ, but men commit 99% of sexual crime. That's what safe guarding is for. Protect the many from the actions of the few before something happens. Take the known risks, and put rules in place. The known risks are men. It isn't about hating men. It's about knowing that men cause crime as a cohort.

Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo · 07/02/2025 18:03

Sorry, OP. You say in the title the school didn't tell her she was sharing a changing room with a male. But that she knows who the trans kid is. So how could she not have known she was changing with them?

This is terrible guidance, and I don't see the benefit of it. All the trans kids at my school either change with the others of their biological sex, or (most often) in the private, gender neutral toilets. I'm surprised any trans teenager would want such a in your face reminder of how their body was different from those they identified with in terms of gender.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/02/2025 18:02

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 17:59

So you can't answer whether someone also has the right to not want to change in front of someone who is sexually attracted to people of their gender unless that person is male.

Okay I just wanted to see what level of consistency we are working with and I see this isn't based on anything other than hating men. It isn't based on dignity or human rights at all. Gotcha.

Bingo - hating men!

Tells us all we need to know about the credibility of your demands that girls undress in front of boys.

nocoolnamesleft · 07/02/2025 18:01

A couple of years ago, staying in a hotel, I got chatting to the lovely lesbian couple at the next table. We agreed to meet at the pool next day. Turned out the women's changing was communal. Which was not a problem because we were all women. Why on earth would them being lesbians matter?

WarriorN · 07/02/2025 18:01

Can you provide a link to a study that states this please?

No need to; the pool where we take the pupils with send to swim at have often had males who appear to time their swim to our sessions and hang around the changing areas. Staff have to patrol and have called police before. A colleague was subjected to voyerism under the cubicle door in the same pool. He was charged

But there's absolutely buckets of data

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/02/2025 18:00

spannasaurus · 07/02/2025 17:58

archive link:

archive.ph/1t5AY

arethereanyleftatall · 07/02/2025 18:00

Just have cubicles. Even gendered rooms with private cubicles.

Surely every female in the world has sought solace with their girlfriends in a female only loo? We are taking away so much that used to be available to girls in this pandering to such a tiny part of the population. People really need to stop applying the word 'progress' to what is currently happening - it is anything but.

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 17:59

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/02/2025 17:57

As a lesbian, and a parent, I'm fully versed in what homophobia is. The increase in homophobia that I see stems from the massive increase in adult heterosexual transactivists attempting to persuade young lesbians and gay men that they're really born in the wrong body. Along with insisting that that they have no rights to privacy from the opposite sex - for reasons that are immediately apparent once you engage some critical thinking.

Whataboutery about lesbians is a typical transactivist trope designed to swerve attention away from the adults insisting that girls are support humans required to undress in order to validate unhappy males (see the current NHS Fife debacle trending on here and elsewhere).

So you can't answer whether someone also has the right to not want to change in front of someone who is sexually attracted to people of their gender unless that person is male.

Okay I just wanted to see what level of consistency we are working with and I see this isn't based on anything other than hating men. It isn't based on dignity or human rights at all. Gotcha.

ForSparklyLemonLurker · 07/02/2025 17:59

Oh ffs. Just make a boys changing room, girls changing room and a trans changing room. This is ridiculous now, just because some kid identifies as a cat,.everyone else's safety is jeopardised.

WarriorN · 07/02/2025 17:59

Anyway, this homophobic discussion is irrelevant as single sex spaces for children in school is law and the OPs daughter has a right to that provision, without being made to feel that she is being unreasonable or problematic.

The school has prioritised the rights of a teen boy over the rights of the girls.

I would be asking them if they had risk assessed and are ready to deal with the inevitable court action if that male ever carried out any sexually inappropriate or abusive actions on any of the girls in those spaces.

Beingpushed · 07/02/2025 17:57

shocking; Where is the world heading? I will consider moving her. Put the name of the school/shame them

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/02/2025 17:57

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 17:47

You didn't answer the question. If someone said that they don't want their daughter changing around a lesbian because they find it risky and/or undignified, should that be considered, too?

As a lesbian, and a parent, I'm fully versed in what homophobia is. The increase in homophobia that I see stems from the massive increase in adult heterosexual transactivists attempting to persuade young lesbians and gay men that they're really born in the wrong body. Along with insisting that that they have no rights to privacy from the opposite sex - for reasons that are immediately apparent once you engage some critical thinking.

Whataboutery about lesbians is a typical transactivist trope designed to swerve attention away from the adults insisting that girls are support humans required to undress in order to validate unhappy males (see the current NHS Fife debacle trending on here and elsewhere).

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 17:55

Cerial · 07/02/2025 17:52

Why have changing rooms at all? just let them all get changed in the hallway. Let them all see each other,adults as well.

Right? No problem, all genders

Just have cubicles. Even gendered rooms with private cubicles.

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 17:55

WarriorN · 07/02/2025 17:50

Because of religious doctrine around modesty and sexuality at a time where they didn't consider homosexuality to be normal or factor it into issues around the such. Then it because a sin/crime and that meant it was further ignored.

No, because women's and children's rights didn't exist. One of the first things that was addressed was toilets for women separate to men. Prisons for women.

Cubicles are no better; rates of voyerism are high in gyms and pools with mixed cubicles.

Can you provide a link to a study that states this please?

Cerial · 07/02/2025 17:52

Why have changing rooms at all? just let them all get changed in the hallway. Let them all see each other,adults as well.

Right? No problem, all genders

WarriorN · 07/02/2025 17:50

Because of religious doctrine around modesty and sexuality at a time where they didn't consider homosexuality to be normal or factor it into issues around the such. Then it because a sin/crime and that meant it was further ignored.

No, because women's and children's rights didn't exist. One of the first things that was addressed was toilets for women separate to men. Prisons for women.

Cubicles are no better; rates of voyerism are high in gyms and pools with mixed cubicles.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/02/2025 17:48

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 17:45

Sexual predators rarely attack people of genders they aren't attracted to and we are speaking about the chance of sexual assault.

Please cite your evidence for this unusual claim. Those of us who are adults know that rape and sexual assault are about power, anger and control - as well as sexual violence

arethereanyleftatall · 07/02/2025 17:48

They replaced one set of male and one set of female toilets at dds school with unisex toilets. Thankfully leaving one single sex each too. End result has surprised no one with any sense. Female single sex is rammed. The boys have plenty of space though now with a single sex toilets plus the unisex to themselves. It is such a surprise to me that my dds don't want to sit on piss riddled seats. @heyhopotato - would you mind explaining to me please how this set up is progressive for my daughters?