My 14 year old daughter has been sharing school changing rooms, including swimming, with a male. The school never told me, or her. What would you do?

Women are at risk from MEN.
Full stop

Spot on.

BigSilly ·

2) why do you believe this person is more likely to harm your daughter, than one of the other girls?

"Other girls"? This is a boy trying to pass himself off as a girl. He's not any sort of girl.

Have a look at the details of the thread and https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404868-single-sex-changing-spaces-in-a-brighton-secondary-school-new-school-year-new-thread - you will see the school has just said "thats ok, males can be in with females, we have done no safeguarding assessment or equality impact assessment (confirmed under FOI) but stop worrying".

Just to say this ongoing drama is continuing on this thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404868-single-sex-changing-spaces-in-a-brighton-secondary-school-new-school-year-new-thread

Which is more up to date with latest occurrences :)

The reason women are most at risk from men they live with (partners, sons) and ex partners is BECAUSE THOSE MEN HAVE GREATER ACCESS TO THE WOMAN AND PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY FOR BEING AROUND THE WOMAN AT VULNERABLE TIMES.

Apologies for the bold, not meaning to shout at you, just highlighting this simple, crucial point that is always overlooked.

Safeguarding is a very imperfect tool. But it does make it harder for abusers to access all women even if it can't always protect their female relatives.

The answer to "women are most at risk from men they know" is: higher sentences for abuse and VAWG; greater information sharing about abusive men; changing society so that abuse of women isn't seen as aspirational/ entertainment/ natural. The answer isn't to give strangers more access to vulnerable women.

@Bigsilly statistically many more boys are attracted to girls than are to boys. And "this person", as you put it, is a boy, so...

Please stop teaching her never to do anything alone and to live in fear. It is not coming from a place of care and concern. It risks severely limiting her independence and freedom as an adult. She is very very unlikely to be harmed by a stranger - almost all of the risk to women comes from male domestic partners. Your warnings about men should be about that, not strangers, by a ratio of about 10:1. If you can’t face that reality then your warnings are really just about controlling her.

The trans child is a separate issue. Just speak to the school and see what they say.

So you’re saying that all gay boys should be in the girls changing room? Or are you saying only those gay boys who wear dresses. Do you realise how homophobic you sound.

There is probably a universe where all schools have individual lockable changing cubicles. But it’s not this one.

When were you last in a normal school?

Oh yes. Then everyone can change in the changing room related to their sex. Awesome. You should get right on that.

You would benefit from reading the history of this and not making assumptions and jumping on some sexist bandwagon, he is a concerned Father, trying to protect his daughter (and girls generally) from possible sexual assault/voyeurism, the boy in question is being “affirmed” and encouraged to use and feel entitled to use girls private spaces. Hope that helps.

Outrageous. It benefits no one. It normalizes the removal of privacy. One has to ask who lobbied Brighton to adopt this? I'll not mention names but you don't need to search too hard to see some big names promoitrans issues in children's spaces. Questions should be asked

Small update to this thread from the OP just in case people had not seen the current outcomes.

second thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5309038-secondary-school-complaint-about-mixed-sex-changing-rooms-update-school-response-and-request-for-help-writing-the-escalated-complaint-to-governors

third thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5330837-secondary-school-mixed-sex-changing-rooms-complaint-update-from-school-again?page=1

Summary: Stage 2 complaint exceptionally paused by school governing board as too big and complicated and they cannot be expected to deal with complex legal issues as lay people (governors) complaint is ongoing. FOI requests, ongoing.

Please pop any updates or advice on the third thread!

When I get another update, I will start a fourth thread to keep it all together.

(additional - appeal for any parents or teachers in Brighton who can stand up and make an enquiry to secondary schools about mixed sex changing rooms - we really need you to send an email to your local head - can you help? https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5347768-parents-of-secondary-school-children-in-brighton-who-dont-believe-teenage-girls-should-have-to-get-changed-with-males-can-you-help )

A transgirl is a boy. Boys in the majority are sexually attracted to girls. Doesn't matter, anyway, because a person with a penis should not be in the girls' changing room on grounds of privacy, dignity, safeguarding for the girls, and own safety from being accused of sexual assault, voyeurism etc for the 'transgirl', who is also learning that women's boundaries are irrelevant to him - and the girls are also being taught this. No and no. Also it is illegal for a school to have mixed sex changing rooms or toilets - and a transgirl is male (you cannot change sex and how you feel is irrelevant).

Did the stats refer to women. 'queer' and 'young people' do not reference sex. Original, please. Government stats say 98% of violent and sexual assaults are carried out by males.

if I had a trans child I wouldn't want them to be changing on an open changing room either.

Why not, though? Girls and boys have been changing in sex-segregated communal spaces for decades. A gender questioning child looks exactly the same as any other child of the same sex. What would you be unhappy about? Genuine question.

Edited for clarity

Do we know what response the OP had to the excellent letter!

How many schools have the space for separate cubicles in changing rooms?
We had up to 30 girls at a time changing for PE when I was at school and room for maybe 10 cubicles. If we all had to wait to use cubicles there would have been no time left to actually do any PE.

It isn't important to me particularly but if I had a trans child I wouldn't want them to be changing on an open changing room either. As long as everyone has separate cubicles that's all I am bothered about.

The problem with toilets and changing cubicles is you are always going to have to make a choice between privacy or safety. Because of this blurring of boys/men and girls/women going into areas for the opposite sex, people consistently design for privacy.

1.A young woman who suddenly feels nauseous, her head pounding, rushes to the toilet in the locker room. She is being sick because she has a brain aneurysm. The woman in the toilet cubicle next to her hears her, rescues her, she gets to the hospital in time to be operated on successfully.
2.A man feels ill. Goes to the enclosed toilet and has a heart attack. No one sees him and people are looking for him. His body is in there for hours.
3.A 12 year old girl is led into a mixed sex toilet at one of the busiest stations in the U.K. and raped twice. No one notices. The man walks away. She bravely goes to the police later and he is arrested through cctv footage which has done nothing to prevent or safeguard.

(The first situation happened to a famous actress, the second a famous politician, the third happens too regularly to ordinary women, girls and boys)

School toilets are being designed to be acoustically sound and private. There is now a new design addition of a private ‘gender-neutral’ toilet on each floor in secondary schools. The DfE have said to me they are designing toilets to be private. They are not designing them to be safe.

In essence we need clearer legislation and guidance. I have no problem with trans pupils being respected in schools and being referred to by their chosen names with parental permission. However I believe the intent of current law is that there should be female only spaces including changing areas and toilets. There should be separate provision for trans pupils but guidance and the law should be clearer that a female space is exactly that. The guidance in my public sector employer encourages people to use the areas they align with and encourages trans allies to challenge anyone who objects. This is simply not right and leaves most of us afraid to say anything.

Why is it so important to you that boys should be washing and changing and using the toilet with girls?

This plus as well as being 99 times more likely to commit sexual assault boys are bigger and stronger.

There is also the issue of dignity and privacy. Teen girls want privacy away from male bodies. Why are their needs less important than one deluded boy? Why can't he change / pee in the teachers toilets if they're so keen on inclusion?

Quite apart from anything else, a large number of transw suddenly discover that they're "actually lesbians," when they do whatever it is makes them claim to be women.