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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I think males should be banned from female sport and anyone should be allowed to enter the male / open category. The US President has just signed an executive order saying this.

338 replies

SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 12:13

Females need their own sports for reasons of fairness, competitiveness and safety. I am glad that orders like this make it easier to talk about these issues without being called a biggot.

Everyone deserves fair opportunities, women and girls are under represented in sport, this can only help that get a little better.

Transgender sports people also clearly deserve opportunities to participate in sport and so trans women and men should be allowed to enter male / open categories or have their own categories if needed.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-transgender-athletes-3606411fc12efffec95a893351624e1b

President Donald Trump speaks during a news conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the East Room of the White House, Tuesday, Feb. 4, 2025, in Washington. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

Trump to sign executive order barring transgender female athletes from competing

President Donald Trump is signing an executive order designed to prevent people who were biologically assigned male at birth from participating in women’s or girls' sporting events.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-transgender-athletes-3606411fc12efffec95a893351624e1b

OP posts:
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Original poster
SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 15:07

TheKeatingFive · 05/02/2025 14:49

The titles of these EOs really cut to the chase, don't they?

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aren;t they great

OP posts:
Ablondiebutagoody · 05/02/2025 15:06

username299 · 05/02/2025 14:51

I'm left wing and am Gender Critical. The right wing were the ones in power pushing a trans agenda. It's not that partisan.

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Unfortunately we can't vote for you. I wouldn't say that the Labour Party or the Democrats are gender critical. Or that the right wing push a trans agenda!

ScoldsBridle · 05/02/2025 15:05

Can we introduce another acronym along the lines of NAMALT? It’s I’m Not A Fan of Trump But - so INAFOT. It’ll save a lot of time when explaining to people that agreeing with some of the Orange one’s decisions does not mean that you’ve abandoned a lifelong commitment to women’s rights, access to abortion, equal pay etc… Some people just can’t seem to grasp this possibility and it does my fucking head in!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 05/02/2025 14:56

I mean, Trump as an arch enemy of women generally suddenly doing one thing that benefits women is a bit like Boris Johnson, the long term russian asset, suddenly supporting Ukraine.

They both managed to get one thing right in amongst a general clusterfuck, and then only for their own reasons.

arethereanyleftatall · 05/02/2025 14:55

Why does it bother you what a trans person is doing?

It bothers me @dovetail22uk bevause I am a competitive swimmer who has zero chance, nada, against a biological male, who is equally talented/fit as I am.

Smallsalt · 05/02/2025 14:55

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 13:36

Alas not on Mumsnet. The transphobia is strong in here.

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As is a good grasp of biology.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 05/02/2025 14:54

A stopped clock is right twice a day!

MotionIntheOcean · 05/02/2025 14:53

username299 · 05/02/2025 14:51

I'm left wing and am Gender Critical. The right wing were the ones in power pushing a trans agenda. It's not that partisan.

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Yes, the left right binary (no pun intended) on this one is not a UK thing. At all. GC and genderism are each represented on both right and left.

arethereanyleftatall · 05/02/2025 14:52

Dotjones · 05/02/2025 13:28

The "open" category is the only one that should exist. Everyone should compete together. Sport is a meritocracy, people should be grouped on ability. There are plenty of female athletes who are better than some men who play the same sport.

If you don't know anything at all about sport, that is absolutely fine, it isn't compulsory. But id leave people who do understand it to debate it. Yes, the most elite women who are talented and train their arse off, are better than unfit men. No, the most fit women would never ever ever beat the most fit men. Males have a 10-20% biological advantage depending on the particular sport.

Smallsalt · 05/02/2025 14:51

Dotjones · 05/02/2025 13:28

The "open" category is the only one that should exist. Everyone should compete together. Sport is a meritocracy, people should be grouped on ability. There are plenty of female athletes who are better than some men who play the same sport.

In darts or something?

Because in any sport involving strength, speed, power or indurance, male bodied will beat women. Its basic physiology.

My husband has worked across many sports with elite athletes, right up to Olympic and World champions. And not once has he coached a woman who could beat a man in the same event. These are women who are astonishing athletes, the best in the world. Fast and strong. But they cannot be faster and stronger than men.

username299 · 05/02/2025 14:51

Ablondiebutagoody · 05/02/2025 12:34

But left wing people don't agree with you. They think that you can be whatever sex you claim to be, and as Kier Starmer claimed, that women can have penises etc etc

The right are your only hope here.

Edited
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I'm left wing and am Gender Critical. The right wing were the ones in power pushing a trans agenda. It's not that partisan.

TheKeatingFive · 05/02/2025 14:49

SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 14:46

The title will be "Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports," but the detail is not released yet, today though

The titles of these EOs really cut to the chase, don't they?

Original poster
SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 14:46

The title will be "Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports," but the detail is not released yet, today though

OP posts:
lcakethereforeIam · 05/02/2025 14:42

SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 14:14

Regardless of someone's DSD they are still male or female.

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Yes, they've been used to muddy the waters though. Men, like Semenya, and others have competed as women. I suspect there are some in the US too, does the EO make any mention of them? They should be excluded from the female category too.

TheKeatingFive · 05/02/2025 14:19

Believing humans can’t change sex is a statement of fact - it’s not any political wing.

Exactly.

The astonishing thing is not that Trump is upholding this fact - any sane human would do this.

The astonishing thing is that the Democrats have failed to do so.

TwistedWonder · 05/02/2025 14:17

helpfulperson · 05/02/2025 13:50

It's frightening to see certain members of mumsnet suddenly become Trump fans. Please don't let the couple of good things he's doing blind you to the horrendous things he has done and is planning to do to womens rights and othe topics.

Agreeing with one of his stances is not being a fan.

Many of us don’t blindly follow one political ideology or another. We agree with some policies of each party without meaning we support other policies.

I for one despise pretty much everything Trump stands for but just like a stopped clock being right twice a day, I agree with him on his gender ideology stance.

The desperation of some throwing out far right, bigot, TWAW, hateful, transphobia etc to anyone who believes in biological fact is just trying to stifle any sort of debate and lacks any critical thinking.

Believing humans can’t change sex is a statement of fact - it’s not any political wing.

Original poster
SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 14:14

lcakethereforeIam · 05/02/2025 14:08

Does the EO say anything about DSDs? Sorry, nrtft.

Regardless of someone's DSD they are still male or female.

OP posts:
MotionIntheOcean · 05/02/2025 14:14

Brefugee · 05/02/2025 14:04

FGS. Nobody is becoming a Trump fan because they agree with one thing.

There is no nuance in so many people's attitudes.

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Yes, I suspect most of us know people can be right on some things and wrong on others. It's not actually that complex.

lcakethereforeIam · 05/02/2025 14:08

Does the EO say anything about DSDs? Sorry, nrtft.

TheKeatingFive · 05/02/2025 14:07

JazzyJelly · 05/02/2025 14:01

Damn that's depressing. Is there any climbdown, do you think?

Wes Streetling sounds like the best hope at the moment, and he seems to be an ambitious chap. Not sure what he thinks of the EOs. As far as I've seen Labour have been very quiet on them (though to be fair, Trump's trade wars and Palestine 'plans' probably take centre stage).

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I think Wes has the measure of it all. He was great on the Cass review and extending the ban on puberty blockers. I'd love to see him as leader (and the sooner the better).

The Democrats are another story though. No one seems to be able to break rank and speak sense. They're so tribal on this one. Perhaps they're secretly hoping Trump pushes it all through and they never have to publicly scrutinise their own position 🤷‍♀️

Cosmosforbreakfast · 05/02/2025 14:05

littledotheyknow · 05/02/2025 12:28

Trans women are women

Only a man can be a transwoman. Transwomen are male right down to their DNA. A transwoman is a man. HTH.

Brefugee · 05/02/2025 14:04

helpfulperson · 05/02/2025 13:50

It's frightening to see certain members of mumsnet suddenly become Trump fans. Please don't let the couple of good things he's doing blind you to the horrendous things he has done and is planning to do to womens rights and othe topics.

FGS. Nobody is becoming a Trump fan because they agree with one thing.

There is no nuance in so many people's attitudes.

Coconutter24 · 05/02/2025 14:04

littledotheyknow · 05/02/2025 12:28

Trans women are women

Their chromosomes prove different

Original poster
SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 14:03

JazzyJelly · 05/02/2025 14:01

Damn that's depressing. Is there any climbdown, do you think?

Wes Streetling sounds like the best hope at the moment, and he seems to be an ambitious chap. Not sure what he thinks of the EOs. As far as I've seen Labour have been very quiet on them (though to be fair, Trump's trade wars and Palestine 'plans' probably take centre stage).

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Wes Streeting is the next Labour leader I think and sooner than we think.

OP posts:
Fordian · 05/02/2025 14:03

littledotheyknow · 05/02/2025 12:28

Trans women are women

Because you say so and will scweam and scweam until you're sick if we disagree?

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