Actual gender critical left

Well, indeed.
As I have said before, I come from a family that was given a solid kicking by some unpleasant fascists during WWII. As a result, I know the whiff of fascism when I smell it. I haven't spotted a lot of it recently, despite all the 'fascists!' screeching that goes on. I'm not saying there isn't any, just that a lot opinions that used to be relatively mainstream or perhaps on the hard right now get called 'fascist' when they're not.

Which means, of course, that actual steel toe-capped fascists slip under the radar.

And as @AliceNutterWasAWoman says, we have gone easy on Left authoritarianism. It's okay to say you're a communist (when it ISN'T okay, in polite society, to admit to even a tiny leaning towards fascism or confess to a fondness for El Duce). It's quite trendy in some circles to have posters of Che Guevara on the kitchen wall and to proudly call yourself a 'Leftist' as if you're wearing some kind of halo.

This is despite the fact that you don't have look very far for the mountains of corpses (a low number is 65 million) and the vast networks of prison camps produced by communist regimes.

UK has a recent history of fighting a hot war against fascism on european soil. Children are still taught about it at school, culture addresses it (eg BBC Rise of the Nazis), we have national commemorations. I think many of us are aware of and try to guard against the possibility that valid discussions on immigration, for example, might tip over into far-right ideas.
We are less aware of historical left-wing slides into authoritarianism. I think it was Jordan Peterson who suggested that, because we came to an agreement with Stalin at Yalta, we weren't likely to then teach our kids about the evils of Stalinism. I think we were less well-prepared for an authoritarianism that came from the left and AGCL need to project their horror at what the left has done (sterilising children FFS) onto the right. Denial.

I may be talking bollocks, but it's just a thought. Fantastic thread. Thanks for all the thoughtful posts.

I'd really like people to think more carefully about their use of the word 'fascist' (and 'nazi' for that matter). Overuse of a term risks 'boy who cried wolf' scenarios. I think it might be too late, though.

Transvestitism is a male sexual thing that isnt in any way political. Its likely that high ranking conservative and labour supporters had a great old time together in their private clubs.

The ideology is developed in progressive academia. The law is driven by elite international organisations. Both are removed from real life.

Labour were sucked in because they have forgotten class analysis, conservatives because they have forgotten tradition (maybe even Christian concepts) and moved towards libertarianism.

Both parties never gave a thought to how it was going to work in real life.

I mixed it up with WPUK - the Ruth Serwotka references I think.

There appear to be far too many of these women scolding everybody else.

That interesting. I've seen other articles talking about the over arching left world view - that you have to be for everything left thinks- forced teaming of separate and often complicated political areas. So if you on left you have to think same about Gaza, climate change and gender and if you don't your not on the left.

I saw an friendly interview with a left wing writer known to write for communists paper and a prominent Corbyn supporter where he was annoyed and getting ribbed because like many of left he had issues with Europe. Guardian labeled him right-wing as he wasn't pro Europe - New York times picked article up relabeled him far right. Apparently we need to watch out for the far right Marxists.

He blamed poor journalists standards - and he right there's been a decline - but I think there's also underlying assumption that everyone on left has to think same on all issues - as if like article says they agree with people on right or even centre they need to change their views.

In RL I can agree on some polices and not others - it's what most people do TBH.

I agree, it is tiresome, and frankly, this Labour government has so far been a disappointment from start to finish. If the Tories were doing this (getting rid of winter fuel allowance, building a third runway etc), Labour supporters would be furious.

Yes they would so I'll add hypocrisy to tiresome.

From my point of view, it's easier to talk about broad principles. As a person who thinks of herself as left-wing, I believe in: proper funding of health, education and public services such as parks and libraries; a minimum wage; a welfare safety net for people who need it; protections for people at work, including health and safety regulations, statutory maternity pay, minimum annual leave and so on; plenty of public housing for those who need it; anti-discrimination legislation that makes it illegal to discriminate against people on the grounds of sex, sexuality, race or disability.

And I agree with all of that and yet I am, according to AGCL, a far right fascist due to my stance on women's and children's rights and Gender Ideology.

I agree, it is tiresome, and frankly, this Labour government has so far been a disappointment from start to finish. If the Tories were doing this (getting rid of winter fuel allowance, building a third runway etc), Labour supporters would be furious.

From my point of view, it's easier to talk about broad principles. As a person who thinks of herself as left-wing, I believe in: proper funding of health, education and public services such as parks and libraries; a minimum wage; a welfare safety net for people who need it; protections for people at work, including health and safety regulations, statutory maternity pay, minimum annual leave and so on; plenty of public housing for those who need it; anti-discrimination legislation that makes it illegal to discriminate against people on the grounds of sex, sexuality, race or disability.

Those all used to be considered fairly fundamental left-wing ideas. I am not going to stop believing in these things just because so many people who call themselves left-wing have turned out to be a bunch of tossers.

Great post!

When asked to describe what the qualities, or values, associated with thinking and perspectives that could be considered more to the 'right' - many, who consider themselves to be of 'the Left' simply come up with negative value judgements. There seems to be no understanding of the actual foundational principles or values that inspire 'right wing' thinking. These value judgements are predicated entirely on good/bad polarised thinking, and as such, are entirely emotive.

I agree that gender ideology stems from typical Left wing thinking styles and patterns of the sort you mention. In fact I'd say gender ideology is the natural outgrowth of the sort of equality feminism which seeks to reject anything to do with perceived feminine roles. Which perceives being a woman only in terms of oppression - in which women are forever victims of patriarchal oppression and male violence.

It is assumed that capitalism and 'patriarchy' go hand in hand and fighting one means fighting the other. Women have to be 'liberated' from both. Liberated to be, effectively, non gendered beings - with no features which distinguish them from males - other than different body parts.

Gendersim has really thrown a spanner in the works, and caused something of a crisis for those who cling to Left identities. Rather than re-assessing the whole shebang - they instead have to insist that Gender ideology has nothing to do with Left wing thinking, or Left wing patterns of perceiving the world.

See similar with some Labour supporters on here and many who also now moan the current government polices get criticized as if somehow no one should dare as if they are just the "good guys" and their polices aren't adversely affecting people's lives.

It's so damn tiresome.

RoyalCorgi the EqA with it's woolly language and unclear definitions is one of the issues that has led to the current shit show, that and the GRA both brought in by Labour Governments and both of which Labour claim to be incredibly proud of. Labour knew the problems that would come down the line, they with the GRA and they ploughed on regardless. They knew it was a misogynistic, homophobic and sexist Law, they knew it would have a negative impact on women and their rights and they'd made damn sure that they protected the right of primogeniture for males.

I too am sick of this constant - Left Good, Right Bad rhetoric, its childish and shows a lack of ability to think.

I'm already seeing this argument quite a lot.

I've been asking "Isn't that true the other way round? That by insisting on a maximalist position - eg. sport, the right wing has been enabled?"

So far only response has been "f*ck off."

I've been waiting for this article for about 15 years. So much common sense I could weep.

AGCL seem to spend most of their time attacking other women for doing feminism wrong, but I don't want to dismiss all the good work and organising that they've done, so happy to hear more about it.

@lcakethereforeIam Excellent article.

I started reading this thread and then googled to find out what Actual Gender Critical Left is - found out it's someone's Facebook group. Since I don't use anything that comes from Meta I have no way of knowing whether it's one person or two. Or more or what anyone involved means by 'gender critical' and/or 'left'. And don't care.

The Critic has published a pertinent and timely article

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-thoughtlessness-of-guilt-by-association/

In comparison, Conservative governments have not done very much to improve women's rights.

I guess the clue is in the name - conservative. Starting from a position where women didn't have many rights, you didn't want to maintain the status quo - you needed someone progressive to make changes.

Whereas once they're achieved, then you probably want someone inclined to conserve them, rather than come up with "progressive" reasons why they're not required any more. Maintaining women's existing rights is now a small-c conservative position, so why shouldn't it be a Conservative one?

Thinking of an analogy Douglas Murray used a couple of years back - at some point you'd like the train of progress to actually stop at a station, rather than always keep going and plough off the end of the track.

It was fascinating especially when they didn't let him finish a sentence. And they accused him of doing things in the future that they themselves are doing right now.

He came off really well in that.

I think you make some fair points, but on the whole, the legislative changes that have made women's lives better have come on the whole from left-wing governments. In the UK, for example, the Abortion Act was passed under a Labour government (though it was a private member's bill), as was the Sexual Offences Act, decriminalising homosexuality. The Sex Discrimination Act and Equal Pay Act were both introduced by the Labour Party, as was the Equality Act. The Maternity Allowance and Child Benefit were both introduced by a Labour government. If I had time I'm sure I could think of a few other examples! In comparison, Conservative governments have not done very much to improve women's rights.

It was really interesting to watch some of Bobby Kennedy's confirmation hearing, because he's going to be the key guy for a lot of the issues around paediatric transitioning and whether detransitioners can sue.

RFK is a controversial character I know, and even his friends say he's very eccentric, but he's incredibly interesting. It says something that the Democrats pushed him out of the party and Trump welcomed him into the big tent, because if RFK is anything, he's a left wing populist. His basic politics is that Big Food and Big Pharma are literally making America sick, and the regulatory agencies have been captured.

So you very often hear him say things like "why is American food so full of weird additives, why does Canadian breakfast cereal have colours made from natural ingredients like carrots and blueberries while the same brand in the US is full of synthetic dyes". It's the kind of thing the Green Party used to talk about.

At the hearing, the Democrat senators - looking at Elizabeth Warren in particular, whose whole shtick is supposed to be consumer protection - somehow came off looking like angry lobbyists for Big Pharma, challenging RFK on how dare he say consumers should be able to sue drug companies. The Republican senators didn't really have to do anything, because the Democrats made them look reasonable by default.

The absolute #1 being the idea that being misogynistic is right wing. This is the underlying assumption that has screwed up the perspective of the Real Feminists, they think being good is left wing, almost by definition.

I really agree with this.

One idea that left is good therefore everyone with good morality should automatically vote for them thus the lack of proper campaigning seeking that connection with the electorate and feeling when in power they are somehow above reproach that some seem to have.

Two that the left isn't misogynistic. Last few years I thought it was painfully obvious how painfully misogynistic many left wing men are in public statements - it's not hidden.

I don't really know if it matters much in the end what wing it belongs to, but Ithink you've made a few serious errors in your list.

The absolute #1 being the idea that being misogynistic is right wing. This is the underlying assumption that has screwed up the perspective of the Real Feminists, they think being good is left wing, almost by definition.

There are woman haters across the political spectrum, and people who respect women And there are plenty of right wing feminist and that's not new - the Real Feminists might have denied them access to the brand, and conservative women in general didn't care to waste energy on arguing over names. But that hasn't stopped them from getting together and talking about women's issues and bettering things for women as individuals and a group.

Authoritarianism is also a very strange thing to ascribe to the right in particular. A good portion of the planet in the 20th century has been dominated by left authoritarian states. The Real Feminists are pretty authoritarian themselves.

The others I think aren't that clear cut either, but those two in particular seem to be totally unrelated to being left or right wing.

And on the other hand, I think we could talk about some of the typical characteristics of left wing movements - a commitment to destruction of boundaries and norms (in line with the idea that we all becomes the proletariat, gender ideology seems to conceptualize sex in the same way,) hierarchies of oppression and an association of being good with being oppressed, the sometimes startling similarity to things like struggle sessions and purity spirals we see in revolutionary left movements, a striking tendency towards utopianism.

I also think it's difficult to deny that identity politics is a pretty much wholly leftist invention. And gender ideology is a kind of identity politics.

It's not a weird error that we see this stuff mainly, almost overwhelmingly, on the left. It might be a sort of new left, but it's coming from all kinds of typically left tendencies. This is why the Real Feminists, who are committed to leftism before anything else, are struggling with these issues. The fact is that apart from the niggling fact that they think gender identity isn't real, they don't really have an issue with the other assumptions found in gender ideology.

@RoyalCorgi its all tops turvy, the right being leftist, and the left being right wing, in certain policy areas. And then we see the rise of popularism, or as i would rather call it the cult of the individual.

One of the saddest, and maddest, things about all this is that gender ideology is fundamentally right-wing. Or to put it another way, it has elements traditionally associated with the right wing:

• It's misogynistic - it gives men power over women
• It reinforces regressive gender stereotypes
• It's homophobic - it tells adolescents who are gay and lesbian that they should be heterosexual, and it tells lesbian that they should accept men as sexual partners
• It's authoritarian - it employs ruthless tactics to silence dissenters
• It allows Big Pharma and private medical practitioners to make money out of exploiting vulnerable children and mentally unwell adults

There is no sense in which gender ideology could be regarded as progressive or left-wing. Yet left-wing, progressive and social democratic parties throughout the developed world have embraced this mad and dangerous ideology with enthusiasm. I am too angry with the left for having gone down this route to have space to feel angry with women for turning to the right-wing parties.