Teen declared they were trans and now says they can't be in contact with us

So what YOU think, trumps anyone who has looked into this from any kind of research point of view, be it medical or psychological.

Just cos YOU think, 'why would anyone do that?' and can't look beyond your own field of knowledge we should vigouriously support and affirm transition.

Would you like to be any more anti-science?

We should all just blindly follow, not think about consequences of doing so, and just BELIEVE in what you say?

Well we all can clearly see how we got here, can't we.

Meanwhile kids and families are harmed. But meh, what do they matter?

Also, the claim is not only that the the earlier period "trans women" in the study had a propensity to male pattern violence, but greater than male pattern violence.

I don't know what you mean by breaking cover, I've just been expressing my opinion like everyone else.

As for says medicine, it's established medical fact that hormones have a huge influence on feelings, behaviours, and desires.

That's from the Swedish study that the authors said everyone misunderstood

She's misrepresenting it to pander to TRAs. It's what her own study says.

@crochetedcat If your teen had been a teen in the noughties, he’d have gravitated towards being an emo. Look at the comments on this article reminiscing about being an outsider.

Would it be worth showing him this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8d9156r6pyo.amp

That's from the Swedish study that the authors said everyone misunderstood.

And I gather that there's a Swedish study that some people take as proving a male pattern of behaviour persists in transwomen but the author says that's inaccurate and that that's not what it shows.

She's pandering to trans rights activists. It does indeed show that and she hasn't rescinded that claim on the paper itself, just in interviews that most people aren't ever going to read.

So no.

With apologies to @crochetedcat, whose thread is being hijacked, but I just have to say this on coming back after not checking since this morning…but wow. ChicLilacSeal has really broken cover in spectacular fashion.

And as for ‘Says medicine’?! LOL.

By fully transitioned, I mean gender reassignment surgery and established use of hormone treatment.

I just think that if someone has fully transitioned, they should be accepted as that sex.

Do you mean if they have had surgery to their penis to create a simulacra of female genitalia?

Some of the posts on here read like sociology textbooks. I'm not into this topic in the same way. I just think that if someone has fully transitioned, they should be accepted as that sex. Imagine going through all the pain and suffering of gender reassignment and taking hormones and looking as female as the person in that photo and then being denied that you're at least a type of woman, if not the same as a biological one.

I do not think that any man would have his penis and balls removed and would take hormones that made all his muscle and body hair disappear just to use cubicles in the same changing room as women.

Regarding behaviour patterns, everyone knows that hormones have vast influences on behaviour. And I gather that there's a Swedish study that some people take as proving a male pattern of behaviour persists in transwomen but the author says that's inaccurate and that that's not what it shows.

Oh look. The whole 'prove it' cos I can't be arsed to do 'weeks of research', but still think I have the authority to berate the women who can be bothered to. And if they do, then they are either 'too intellectual', 'too aggressive' or simply just reading biased stuff.

Women can't win. We know this. But we are also aware of just how damned misognistic the whole debate is and what techniques are being used to try and get us to sit down and shut up.

It annoys me, cos the people doing it don't have trans people centred in their arguments anymore than a full on raving christian puritan would.

I agree that it does seem to be teen like behaviour, sticking two fingers up at the world, coming later than you would expect and sadly when they are away from home and probably feeling lots of emotions about that too. If only the stakes weren’t so high

Here's a photo of a man before and after transition. I would never, in a month of Sundays, ever think that the person on the right had ever been a man. I don't think that the person on the right makes a changing room mixed-sex. Sport is different because it makes use of physical strength, which the activity of changing doesn't.

I have seen many such pictures on social media. Then people unearth unfiltered images, or video stills, and they are inevitably obviously male, and unrecognisable from the carefully curated images initially seen.

I've seen people suggest that the TRA movement wouldn't have gained the traction it had without filters, and I think there's something in that.

I'm not sure why this thread has turned into a discussion about how female a man looks in still photos.

OP - I do hope you manage to have some clear discussions with your son.

That sounds tough. As much as you're trying to be supportive from their point of view they will be able to tell you're uncomfortable. The clue is you refer to them as him, you probably looked uncomfortable about the make up etc... I'm not saying that's right or wrong but they can probably tell you don't accept it even if you've tried.

I think all you can do is continue as you are. Send occasional messages it would be lovely to hear from you. Use their new name etc... Maybe read up on what you can do.

It sounds like you've generally been kind parents and in time they'll most likely realise and appreciate this and reply.

AND?

Whats your point?

Why do the desires of a male trump the feelings and safety of women? Every time.

All you've done on this thread is use misognistic language to berate women. Your attempt to smear someone who has done research took the biscuit. Women are not permitted to make intellectual arguments.

Then you went to smears about how asking difficult questions was 'aggressive'. Yet again another misgonistic slur. Women are not allowed to challenge. They should be passive, accomodating and kind. Even if it harms them to do so.

And now you are resorting to the emotional blackmail angle again, saying 'why don't you feel for the poor feminine looking man?' Thus reducing women to merely to their visual appearance. With no regard to how women who have a history of abuse might feel. Or thought to patterns of how sex offenders are MORE LIKELY to transition than the general population.

Cos women are invisible, they are unimportant. Research is irrelevant and shouldn't be carried out. Anyone not virtue signalling is a baddie. They have all the rights they need; the right to be silence.

Its funny.

If a male wishes to dress in a dress, thats fine by me. But they aren't a woman. And its not the responsibility of women to uphold this fantasy. If male violence is the problem then thats what should be dealt with. Its not for women to expose themselves to additional issues to avoid this issue.

Women deserve better than this clap trap.

Its like a script.

And only serves to demonstrate a huge amount of my point about how families are marginalised, silenced and emotional coerced and blackmailed into situations that are not helping any party directly involved.

Instead we have to put up with the 'do gooders' trying to stick their oars in and look good, rather than addressing the underlying difficult issues that unpin all of it.

Its part of the problem. Its CREATING stigma and its CREATING unnecessary barriers and obstacles.

But as you say @ChicLilacSeal you don't actually have the knowledge so it's unfair to ask you for citations. As pp said, if you want to be convincing in your arguments you should read a range of opinions and sources, not just TRA ones, rather than write off the ones you don't approve of as "anti trans" so you don't have to engage.

@EuclidianGeometryFan i have to say I’m wondering if you have children yourself, who are university age and over.
Because I haven’t yet found parents of children that age that feel it’s normal for one of their young adult dcs to not contact them at all for 4+ months at a time.

It’s not because that’s what your brother did that it’s ok or something to accept.
I mean wpuld you REALLY be happy to only hear about your adult children 2 or 3 times a year?

Small eh, I'm reminded of the Father Ted line on perspective.

This person is small, this person is far away.

It's a deliberately taken photo to imply smallness.

The woman in the photo is pretty small and I can't imagine her having any advantage over female athletes.

This person is a man, being a woman is not a prize for dainty looks. Hope that helps.

It may be that he actually wants a lot less contact. Ignoring the whole trans issue for a moment, why do you think not being in contact with you for three weeks is an issue? And what 18 year old away at uni wants to call their grandparents, let alone a ND one?

Perhaps you could adjust your expectations. My brother went to Uni and didn't contact my parents at all during term time, not even at 'half-term'. When I left home as a young adult, I didn't contact my grandparents at all - only saw them at family gatherings, so usually only once a year at Christmas.
This may not be normal for most families who have a family culture of lots of texts and regular check-ins, but it was fine in our family.

But a far-reduced level of expectations of contact may help your son with that crucial step of breaking away from his family of origin and becoming an independent adult.

When he gets to age about 25, then encourage him to stay in touch a bit more, especially if he gets a long-term partner who will want to know his family.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/html/committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/html/committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/html/

Evidence re male pattern behaviour following transition

I would say that demanding people bow down to your delusion is pretty entitled male behaviour.

That is being fair. He's a man. He can compete against other men. If he can't because he's chosen to take hormones, too bad.