Teen declared they were trans and now says they can't be in contact with us

Given we now know the high incidence of anorexia amongst autistic girls, I do really have to ask big questions over autistic groups. Especially since they have been traditionally dominated by males. There's always been this stuff about male and female brain banded about in connection with autism too. None of which is grounded in evidence.

We do however have a growing body of evidence about brain patterns and extremist behaviour. Which is mitigated by guess what?

Exposure to a broad range of differing views.

That is exactly how it feels @GoldVermillion. And I believe that anorexia is not about food but feelings as it is with these kids with ASD identifying as the opposite sex and taking it too far.

I find the comparison with anorexia useful too.

Can I ask you to imagine what it would be like if your young person had anorexia, AND if you took them to a doctor the likelihood is that the doctor would agree they were too fat and suggest they start ozempic or Mounjaro to help their thinness journey, AND your anorexic teen is not seen as a vulnerable person caught up in this ideology but is being tarred by the same brush as the people making the pro-ana websites, and it's their fault and choice, even though their teachers and the media told them that it's perfectly ok to be anorexic? AND you are being told as a parent that if you just made it very clear that they just need to eat and aren't too thin and stopped pandering it would all be solved?

That's how it feels this side of the fence.

@RedToothBrush that is a really good point you make that trans adults thwarting attempts to research trans treatment is about controlling the narrative - and that has huge parallels with anorexia.
@BonfireLady "But somewhere along the line many (most?) become victims and perpetrators."
I have a Goddaughter who I love who identifies as a trans man. When I travelled to visit her most recently I was confronted with the fact that alot of what she's playing with, with her identity and presentation, is very homophobic. It's like an identitarian power play, where she treats gay men in exactly the way (if I'm reading correctly) OP's son is treating women and girls - as a kind of novelty act, that it's fun to play as, not serious, real human beings. Play things.
Of course she's a victim, of sexism, of all sorts of horrible experiences. But there was something nasty that I got a glimpse of. I think victim / perpetrator is not always straightforward for female trans identified people either.

The research has not been done. The reason it is hard to find evidence (never mind proof) of the effects of longterm hormone treatment is that the existing studies are inadequate:

From "Interventions to suppress puberty in adolescents experiencing gender dysphoria or incongruence: a systematic review" published in the BMJ journal "Archives of Disease in Childhood" published April 9th 2024 states:

Conclusions There is a lack of high-quality research assessing puberty suppression in adolescents experiencing gender dysphoria/incongruence. No conclusions can be drawn about the impact on gender dysphoria, mental and psychosocial health or cognitive development. Bone health and height may be compromised during treatment. More recent studies published since April 2022 until January 2024 also support the conclusions of this review.

In April 2024 the Cass Report, to provide an evidence base upon which to make its recommendations, the Review commissioned the University of York to conduct a series of independent systematic reviews of existing evidence and new qualitative and quantitative research to build on the evidence base. The review found:

• The use of masculinising/feminising hormones in those under the age of 18 also presents many unknowns, despite their longstanding use in the adult transgender population. The lack of long-term follow-up data on those commencing treatment at an earlier age means we have inadequate information about the range of outcomes for this group.

There is evidence about the effect of puberty, which starts earlier than we currently realise, as the hormonal changes begin long before any physical signs appear. Once a person has entered male puberty, the effects are permanent and cannot be reversed by taking oestrogen.

What transactivists fail to realise is that this isn't our first rodeo. They always out themselves from a seemingly naive "why can't you women just be kind?" until their exasperation at women refusing to comply with their instructions exposes the predictable "anti trans" tropes.

Hopefully women and parents on here can return to the incredibly thoughtful and insightful discussions that were being had about the challenge of parenting teenagers / young adults in the face of extreme transactivism

haven't read your entire message, RedToothBrush, as we are never going to agree

I don't think not reading stuff by people you disagree with is likely to lead to greater understanding.

I haven't read your entire message, RedToothBrush, as we are never going to agree and also I'm fooking tired, but just to clear up the timezeon: I'm on the East Coast of America, but I am British. I've lived here for a long time but have spent many, many months at home during my parents' illnesses. I sometimes stay up all night surfing the web because I suffer from depression. I'm currently undecided whether to catch some hours even though it's 7.50 am or whether that will result in sleep inertia.

Very convenient! We see this a lot here when the logic starts breaking down.

already told you, the Swedish study, which shows exactly that in the 1989-2003 cohort, per the author of the study.

No it does not. She is clearer in the AMA she also gave than in that interview. You don't understand what the research says, so stop misrepresenting it.

Read this thread where her deliberate misrepresentation is dissected.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3761578-Long-Term-Follow-Up-of-Transsexual-Persons-Undergoing-Sex-Reassignment-Surgery-Cohort-Study-in-Sweden-2011-clarification-by-lead-researcher-Dr-Cecilia-Dhejne-2015

From poster @FloraFox

"For combined transgender females and males and for the whole period 1973-2003 we saw an increased risk of being dead ( in suicide and cardio vascular diseases) and of being hospitalized for any psychiatric morbidity and for suicide attempts. We saw a positive time trend regarding mortality, suicide attempts and any crime and violent crime. For the last period (1989-2003) the transgender group did not have any elevated risk of being dead or being hospitalized for suicide attempts or committing any crime or violent crime. They had the same risk as the controls. However the elevated risk for being hospitalized for psychiatric morbidity still remained. The elevated risk in the transgender group could be caused of many things which we were unable to control for.

Increased trend in crime and violent crime before 1989 and afterwards the same risk as the controls. The control groups were the birth sex group."

This was our son. Easy going and it felt like a relief at first when he started making some choices for himself because he'd previously never asked for anything and been a bit too go with the flow.

I can see you're thinking carefully about how to approach this. I'm wondering if you could find something to rebel on that's not connected with gender.

Our teen also started treating us horribly. We tried to side step it thinking it was just a phase and probably being autistic he didn't realise how bad his treatment was. Actually deep down he knew and I think it allowed him to hate himself and feel guilty. It was much healthier for him when we met it head on.

How on earth would that be policed, @ChicLilacSeal ? You can't lift everyone's skirts as they enter the changing rooms. Defining your gender based on appearance is discriminatory, and defining it as what's in your head gives free rein to the questionable types who do want to be changing in the ladies with their bits very much intact.

The only fair way forward here is to segregate provision by sex, and for men to work on their behaviour so that they do not predate on other male people in their space no matter how they present.

Quite.

For someone who says they think
'I think that GRCs should only be issued to people who have transitioned medically'

I'm intriged by their timezone (and the fact they've STILL not gone to bed). And the fact they are from Brighton.

They definitely aren't a TRA and can't be bothered to do research, then suddenly demand 'evidence'. No not that type of evidence, thats biased.

Why would someone whose timezone isn't the UK, be really that bothered about UK legislation? Why would they pick and choose which evidence is acceptable to them and be completely dismissive of the independent Cass Review?

Why would they resort to anti-science and anti-intellectual arguments instead using the propaganda techique of 'appealling to emotion'?

Coupled with a whole bunch of misognistic comments and stereotypes which reduce women to unthinking passive support humans?

And we are supposed to pretend we don't see straight through it?

The OP is trying to do the best for her child and has real concerns. Concerns this poster isn't really interested in, because they are too busy trying to virtue signal and manipulate the OP into compliance.

Sadly there are a whole bunch of reasons why affirmation isn't a magic bullet and doesn't address the nature of coercive behaviour and family alienation in a situation where the issue isn't a lack of support, its a rejection because someone has unrealistic expectations that can't be met. And theres no conversation about the communication issues that autism can present.

The hijacking occurred at a very particular point in this thread, and I have to say I find that interesting in its own right.

Let's say for argument's sake he looks so feminine that nobody would bat an eye if he used the women's toilets. Fine, if he does that, how would anyone know and be bothered? So nobody is actually harmed or made to feel afraid.

But using a changing room is quite different, as you're exposing your body.

The fact that he feels uncomfortable using the men's changing room is his issue. Nobody forced him to do all the body modifications that make him look different.

He made a choice, now he has to live with it. It's not for society to bend over backwards and be made uncomfortable just to accommodate his choices.

Completely fallacious, the person in question was a drag queen. Never claimed to be trans.

It was very sad, but most likely linked to existing mental health issues, don't try to shoehorn someone's tragedy into your weak argument. It's abhorrent.

@ChicLilacSeal What do you think a GRC should entitle someone to, and do you think there should be any limits?

If a 40 year old, 6 foot 4, 18 stone male had gender reassignment surgery-assignment surgery but in no way passed, do you think they should get a GRC and the same, or different rights alongside it?

I keep answering people who post to me, but that's how the thread gets derailed, so I'll stop answering in the interests of the thread getting back to the OP's issue.

I don't think GRCs should be issued without the person having fully transitioned.

I already told you, the Swedish study, which shows exactly that in the 1989-2003 cohort, per the author of the study.

I don't need to do deep scientific research to know that it's extremely unlikely that a man would remove his penis and balls and take hormones that feminise him just to be allowed into a cubicle next to a woman. Neither do I need to do weeks of research to know that it would be completely unreasonable to think such a thing.

I also don't need to do scientific research to feel compassion for trans people. Did you know that someone who did not always identify as their birth gender recently took their own life because of all the comments posted online after they dared to host an episode of Blankety-Blank? Do you even care?

*committing

As for says medicine, it's established medical fact that hormones have a huge influence on feelings, behaviours, and desires.

Yes, that's a complete non point.

Now show the evidence that taking oestrogen stops men having male pattern violence. Because let's not forget, that was your claim. That was what you said "medicine" said. Go on then, where.

.....that a GRC can be obtained without surgery and a GRC has limits as to what 'rights' you have in relation to being considered legally female.

Imagine going through all the pain and suffering of gender reassignment and taking hormones and looking as female as the person in that photo and then being denied that you're at least a type of woman, if not the same as a biological one

There are a number of important issues this intersects with. Firstly, it is unlikely that any laws will be passed that affords 'passing privileges' to those who do 'pass'. No law intended to bring about equality and address oppression will make appearance part of the accepted criteria. Added to this, I worked for 16 years in a hospital that provided gender reassignment surgery and whilst I would not have identified those who passed most of those in the waiting room really didn't.

Part of gaining informed consent for the operation should include a strong statement that undergoing this treatment will not afford you the status of 'female' in law. That a G

I would be clear if he wants to cut off contact, you respect him as an adult and will treat him as such. This means no further financial support.
it sounds like drama and attention seeking behaviour , and as you haven’t risen to it, they are causing more issues to get you to react.