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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

US Election results

529 replies

IwantToRetire · 06/11/2024 01:26

Kamala Harris 27
45.2% popular vote
12,768,875 votes

Donald Trump 99
53.8% popular vote
15,275,564 votes

270 to win

U.S. election results 2024 | CBC News

6/11/2024 @ 01:25 GMT

U.S. election results 2024

Get live results from the U.S. presidential race between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. See if the Democrats or Republicans win control of the House and the Senate.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/us/2024/results/

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27
biscuitandcake · 14/11/2024 09:18

I think maybe...Trump was successful:

  • playing on people's emotions/fears rather than trying to communicate policies
  • Focusing on huge feel good rallies
  • Telling outrageous lies or exaggerations and relying on people's loyalty to accept those lies (which weirdly made them more committed not less)
  • Being all post truthy
  • Insulting the other side
  • Talking down to people/oversimplifying issues

So maybe the Democrats thought that the key to beating him was to replicate some of those techniques (though not to the same extent)? But it backfired because what works for Trump doesn't work for other politicians and in a way that's a good thing, because otherwise politics would end up being completely degraded. But it does also mean we are facing another 4 years of Trump.

LoobiJee · 14/11/2024 07:39

I’m late joining this thread and haven’t read any of it, but I found this article interesting this morning.

“When I think of the opportunities the Harris campaign missed to articulate even the most obvious financial hypocrisy on the other side, I am drawn back to a meeting I attended last month in Pittsburgh. It was a “get out the vote” event, featuring some of the Harris campaign’s top surrogates, including governors Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania and Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan – who sat on stage answering a quiz delivered by the actor and singer Billy Porter. The topics ranged from the important issues of Taylor Swift’s origin story to the creator of Crayola crayons.
^^
At precisely the same time that these rising stars of the Democratic party fawned over a celebrity, Elon Musk was 200 miles away, delivering his first million-dollar cheque to a swing-state voter in Harrisburg. He was using a tiny fraction of his personal fortune to help tilt the election for Trump by awarding $1m every day to a random person who had signed his petition supporting the first and second amendments – the legally questionable caveat being that the signatories had to be registered voters.
^^
Musk, the world’s richest man, will lead the new Department of Government Efficiency as the US stares down the prospect of a new era of oligarchy. Neither Shapiro nor Whitmer have said much on the matter since leaving the stage that evening.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/14/ive-been-to-more-than-100-trump-rallies-since-2016-this-is-why-i-think-he-won

biscuitandcake · 14/11/2024 06:54

UtopiaPlanitia · 14/11/2024 02:12

I thought some on the thread might like some lighter critiques of the US election results, so here are some thoughts from some fairly big, influential YouTube media criticism channels about the reactions of Hollywood celebs.

These four critics can be a bit sexist at times in that they seem to think only men like action or sci-fi film/TV and that women only like romcoms or stories about feelings (to be honest, as a female nerd I've been putting up with that nonsense belief from men for decades 🙄 🖖). And I've noticed that they seem to feel that certain human virtues are either masculine or feminine (Disparu much more than the others but I put that down to him being young), but, having said all that, these critics are also amusing and have their finger on the pulse of many media fandoms.

And I find that even though they irritate me, occasionally, they have some interesting things to say about the effect of postmodernism and relativism on the modern media landscape and about how fans are reacting to it:

Critical Drinker -

Nerdrotic -

Midnight's Edge -

Disparu -

Yes but....

Actually the confusion between politics and culture isn't helpful. The democrats definately encouraged this by relying on celebrity endorsements etc (and nonsense on the Whitehouse lawn). But there are people who vote for some political parties because they feel "alienated" by either modern culture (movies and TV) and annoyed at its drift/the messages it sends. Or because the feel allienated/isolated from society in other ways - lack of a social network. All of which aren't really primarily things politics can solve. Sure it exists in the same society and politics and culture play of against each other. But parties decide things like taxes and laws. Voting a certain way to "own the libs" because you are upset that modern movies are too touchy-feely/feminist, or because some rando on Tik-tok is ranting about toxic masculinity is not a sensible way of viewing politics. I think out of touch politicians are a problem, and some of that out of touchness is probably caused by an over-reliance on media and cultural "elites" messaging what is important rather than more normal people. But people like Critical Drinker are interesting when they talk about films (though he can be way too whiny at times). I think part of the whole problem is the youtube algorithm need for everyone to mix their art and politics together (Ben Shapiro banging on about the Barbie movie for example. He was always right wing but he was an intelligent thinker once. Being a content maker rotted his brain(.

UtopiaPlanitia · 14/11/2024 02:12

I thought some on the thread might like some lighter critiques of the US election results, so here are some thoughts from some fairly big, influential YouTube media criticism channels about the reactions of Hollywood celebs.

These four critics can be a bit sexist at times in that they seem to think only men like action or sci-fi film/TV and that women only like romcoms or stories about feelings (to be honest, as a female nerd I've been putting up with that nonsense belief from men for decades 🙄 🖖). And I've noticed that they seem to feel that certain human virtues are either masculine or feminine (Disparu much more than the others but I put that down to him being young), but, having said all that, these critics are also amusing and have their finger on the pulse of many media fandoms.

And I find that even though they irritate me, occasionally, they have some interesting things to say about the effect of postmodernism and relativism on the modern media landscape and about how fans are reacting to it:

Critical Drinker -

Nerdrotic -

Midnight's Edge -

Disparu -

EasternStandard · 13/11/2024 19:21

IwantToRetire · 12/11/2024 22:35

For both Republican and Democrat voters gender affirming care, was the least important issue!

Harris voters:
Protecting democracy 68%
Access to abortion 67%
Healthcare 65%
The economy 60%
Climate change 57%
Gun violence 56%
Inflation 53%
Housing affordability 43%
Immigration 43%
Freedom of speech 42%
Crime and safety 41%
US' standing in the world 36%
US involvement in foreign wars 34%
Access to gender affirming care 28%

Trump Voters:
Immigration 72%
The economy 68%
Inflation 65%
Crime and safety 56%
US involvement in foreign wars 50%
Protecting democracy 44%
US' standing in the world 44%
Freedom of speech 41%
Healthcare 37%
Housing affordability 29%
Gun violence 20%
Access to abortion 18%
Climate change 9%
Access to gender affirming care 6%

Source https://www.investopedia.com/early-voters-determined-their-presidential-vote-economy-8739601

See image below for how that balanced out for voters as a whole - click to enlarge.

(Sorry if this post looks familiar, I posted it on another thread by mistake late last night ... Blush )

But this question is about access to

Which is why Harris voters is much higher

Someone might vote against Harris due to not liking the gender stuff and more but they're not going to tick they want access to that care

The poll below is a better representation

The results paint a clear picture: Democrats were punished for inflation, misalignment on immigration and cultural issues, and Biden. The top three reasons not to vote for Harris were:

• “Inflation was too high under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+24)
• “Too many immigrants illegally crossed the border under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+23)
• “Kamala Harris is focused more on cultural issues like transgender issues rather than helping the middle class” (+17).

IwantToRetire · 13/11/2024 17:33

Yes you posted it on another thread and missed all the responses which said that poll is flakey and badly worded for numerous reasons.

I didn't miss the responses, because they mainly seemed to be tryng to find fault with it to fit the narrative of the thread title.

I posted it here because this is where I originally meant to post it, as it shows that there are wide interpretations as to what the final vote shows.

And however much digging you do online, even if those of us on FWR want it to be about gender ideology, it is clear that for most voters in both parties it is low on the list.

Also this continued, and I posted links about this early, going on about Biden and sport and Title IX isn't accurate, because this isn't what the act says, and at this point at time is on hold anyway, because of a number of legal challenges.

Just as in the UK, it is local politics that are the main driver, whether intentionally or not, of changes.

ie in terms of sport, libraries and schools, what has happened in the states that had elections for Governers.

So you can look at any number of post elections surveys, and gender identity is not a priority issue for the majority of voters in the US.

The reality is that the Democrats appear to have lost for a combination of messing up their campaing by not deciding much earlier that Biden should stand down, and Harris being a shoe in. And then even when the official candidate, she couldn't really speak freely or put forward a voter encouraging agenda for potential Democrat voters, because as the current VP she couldn't be in any way critical of Biden. (Presumably this would be true of any current VP campaigning to become President.)

OP posts:
UtopiaPlanitia · 13/11/2024 14:13

IwantToRetire · 13/11/2024 00:33

But doing this lots of times negates that risk.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

But however many times you do it, it could still turn out that the most people never get to comment on the most important or least important issue to them.

Not sure if anyone is interested, but someone has attempted to write an article explaining why so many former Democrats stayed at home, only to get loads of comments about how the writer had totally missed the point.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/11/us/politics/democrats-trump-harris-turnout.html
or https://archive.is/8vBYF

Also from reading random articles, it seems to still rankle that somehow, even if she was the best candidate, having her forced on them, made some resentful.

Another more nuance explanation than are you pro or anti gender ID, is not that Democrat voters are against DEI but the way Harris / her campaign made it seem like a top priority. Whereas for voters it was bread and butter issues, and maybe if that got sorted there was time to look at other issues. (Sounds a bit like the borough where I live in London, lots of "correct" plans, projects, but all the time they are responsible for some of the worst social housing.)

Edited

That was an interesting article. This paragraph about a Democratic Party activist’s experience really stood out to me:

”He said he vividly recalled realizing that Democrats were in trouble during the final weekend of the race when he was knocking on doors on the east side of Detroit and he could not find a way to persuade a middle-aged Black woman to cast her ballot. Black women have long been some of the Democratic Party’s most reliable voters.

“When you have Black women not voting because they say nothing is going to happen — that neither candidate is going to change anything — that is doomsday for Democrats,” Mr. Snyder said.”

lifeturnsonadime · 13/11/2024 08:14

I'm sorry but I just don't think that single poll reflects the wider picture. It is an Iowa poll. Deeply flawed.

Totally agree the research that I posted upthread IS more reliable because it comes from a Democrat bias.

And @biscuitandcake when you say this

Also, I do feel quite sorry for a lot of trans people in America right now who probably are scared of what a Trump presidency might bring, and maybe also seeing what looks like the left "turning on them" or blaming them for losing the election. It isn't really trans-people's fault that Trump won. And it shouldn't be the case that the left shouldn't care about trans-rights. Trans people deserve the same rights as everyone else. But actual politicians need to make sure that other people's rights aren't being suppressed/reduced in order to give trans people everything that everyone on left-leaning Twitter thinks they should have

I feel sorry for women and girls in the USA especially the budding athletes who literally had rights taken away from them on the first day of the Biden presidency when they started the removal of Title 9.

I feel sorry for the children who bear the scars of 'trans healthcare' without appropriate mental health or other watchful waiting.

I feel sorry for the women forced to share prisons with males who not only identify as trans but also were promised affirming surgery in prison.

This list is not exhausted

Trans people are being given privileges that take away the rights of others, mostly women and girls. People who could see that and were swing voters DID have this as a reason to vote Trump. There were also women who ordinarily voted Democrat who declined to vote when Abortion was being played as the great women's rights issue.

I also hope that Trump isn't cruel to trans people but I would welcome the restoration of women's rights to single sex spaces and sports. I would also welcome caution with removing the healthy body parts of children.

The Democrats lost their minds over this, they literally sent a letter to Dylan Mulyvany congratulating him on 1 year of adopting the stereotypes of womanhood, when women have no hope of such adoration and praise because they weren't born male! Then there was trans rights activist, Rose Montoya being celebrated for fondling their exposed fake breasts on the Whitehouse lawn when any other male would be arrested for indecent exposure (or female for that matter). . No wonder Trump took advantage.

RedToothBrush · 13/11/2024 04:00

IwantToRetire · 12/11/2024 22:35

For both Republican and Democrat voters gender affirming care, was the least important issue!

Harris voters:
Protecting democracy 68%
Access to abortion 67%
Healthcare 65%
The economy 60%
Climate change 57%
Gun violence 56%
Inflation 53%
Housing affordability 43%
Immigration 43%
Freedom of speech 42%
Crime and safety 41%
US' standing in the world 36%
US involvement in foreign wars 34%
Access to gender affirming care 28%

Trump Voters:
Immigration 72%
The economy 68%
Inflation 65%
Crime and safety 56%
US involvement in foreign wars 50%
Protecting democracy 44%
US' standing in the world 44%
Freedom of speech 41%
Healthcare 37%
Housing affordability 29%
Gun violence 20%
Access to abortion 18%
Climate change 9%
Access to gender affirming care 6%

Source https://www.investopedia.com/early-voters-determined-their-presidential-vote-economy-8739601

See image below for how that balanced out for voters as a whole - click to enlarge.

(Sorry if this post looks familiar, I posted it on another thread by mistake late last night ... Blush )

Yes you posted it on another thread and missed all the responses which said that poll is flakey and badly worded for numerous reasons.

"Gender affirming care" is a very narrow point which does not encompass the whole problem, which perhaps better falls under a broader 'concerns about free speech'. There are also elements of the problem which fall under crime. Plus whilst the poll focuses on the most significant priority it does not consider lesser priorities still having a certain level of strength of feeling which is still relevant and persuasive. A voter who doesn't have a child which is affected by wishing to have gender affirming care is of course not likely to put it as a priority. That doesn't mean they don't feel strongly about the subject - it's just that they are unlikely to rate it higher because as a priority, it's not affecting them directly.

As someone pointed out "cultural issues" WAS the third most important reason on another thread, which was worded differently:
Top reasons not to vote for Harris.
“Inflation was too high under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+24)
“Too many immigrants illegally crossed the border under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+23)
“Kamala Harris is focused more on cultural issues like transgender issues rather than helping the middle class” (+17).

So why the big difference between these two polls? That's what needs pondering.

Furthermore the poll you mention only talks about people who DID vote. It is silent on the reasons people didn't vote. We know that voting strategies aren't just about getting your own vote out in 2024. They are also about depressing and suppressing the potential vote of your opposition. We know that this election owed a lot to Dems who voted for Biden staying home.

So to say that the poll shows that gender issues weren't important, on the basis of the poll you have there isn't necessarily true because of the two methodology points: 'a poll cancelled because worded in a way that people interpret it differently to someone understanding the poll later and is therefore not a good reflection' and the important 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' theory.

Then we have the good old Russian/Chinese bot theory. For a subject that has been simmering broadly (cultural issues) for the last decade. Which frankly is offensive to voters who are fed up of poor leaders, lack of due diligence and a winding gap between rich and poor which has feed this sense of 'two americas' which refused to talk to each other/ listen to each other. American owned and based social media has enabled that, all by it's self without the aid of any making outside force. I don't think it's been amplified as much as people seem to think by bots either. It's about an issue that's very real and very present in politics around the world and the reasons for this are reflective of patterns of deindustrialisation and educational levels. This cultural divide goes across the western world - it's not just restricted to the US. In the UK it's provincial ex mining towns, in the US it's the rust belt particularly provincial towns, in France it's provincial towns, in Germany it's east German provincial...

The one thing these places all have in common is high raters of blue collar workers, high rates of unemployment, lower educational levels, a decline in standards of living and the local community and greater problems with coping with inflation and cost of living. It's a universal pattern.

The pattern is a reaction against successive mainstream parties neglecting these issues and these communities over a prolonged period to the point they feel silenced and not listened to because they are unrepresented in these concerns and these issues have been left to fester.

In response these parties have been more concerned about high brow concepts of the people in society who have been hardest done by being ones with particular feelings about identity rather than people who have practical problems. The whole thing is that talking about concepts and ideals has been done to suppress concerns about practical daily life issues. It's a middle class concept that doesn't connect with a blue collar population because it's not representative of their life experience. Cultural capital is something for the more affluent to use against the interests of the working poor to maintain the status of the better off.

None of this has been caused by outside forces and this neglect has effectively become a national security risk because levels of dissatisfaction in key areas were high enough to stir up revolutionary thoughts. We know that unemployment has a threshold level throughout the world and throughout history at which the population typically revolts against it's rulers. If the population isn't at this level they are not susceptible to such type of forces or interference.

This is why responsibility must lie with moderates within the Republican party who have been in control in the last 30 - 40 years and the Democrats who have increasingly had a voter base which is more privileged.

If you look at Obama - he won a majority of voters on lower incomes. Now thats Trump.

The economic and cultural issues point is intrinsically linked - and this has been found in multiple studies and polls reflecting on voting patterns in the west.

They are indicative of an empire that has peaked and is now in economic decline. Again we know that businesses tend to do this with the best you can hope for to be a flat lining in performance. Yet all our economic modelling is based on ideas of demographic increase of the working population (to support the pyramid schemes of pensions) and unrealistic continual patterns of economic growth. And we've just hit a tipping point where the population is aging and not being replaced and pressures on land, because as a global society we no longer have areas to invade / explore. (Why do you think Musk is looking at space? Patterns of human progression have periods of prosperity and extreme opportunities in wealth gain based on certain themes that rotate between focuses on exploration, technology advancement and there's a couple of others which I forget to solve human conflict points and problems - but my point being that Musk is identifying that the next big era should be one based on exploration which is why he investing in it understanding we literally have no place left to go on our planet).

In the future the world population should start to decline, based on projections - and we don't really have a response to the challenges this will create for societies that base wealth on the value of land and property prices. It's interesting what is happening and has happened in Japan over the last 30 years for this reason. (Arguably on a smaller scale this is exactly what has happened already in rust belt towns and ex mining towns - they depopulated heavily in these areas).

I'm sorry but I just don't think that single poll reflects the wider picture. It is an Iowa poll. Deeply flawed.

IwantToRetire · 13/11/2024 02:23

What it really is, and what all statistics/data analysis is really, is a scheme for people with an unhealthy interest in numbers and long words like transitivity to find employment.

Exactly, trying to tell people we dont trust you rank in order of importance issues in the election that you think the new President should prioritise. And of course, needing to promote themselves as being the only ones who can really find out what is going on.

Can you imagine if you had to construct a shopping list like this.

I would arrive home with 5 chocolate bars, some coffee and any nice reduce preprepared food. But then I would soon find I had not toilet paper, let alone bleach, and the ultimate sin, no food for the cats.

[at this point I would add a cat emoji but amgoing to have to mount a protest to MNHQ to find out why none are provided ]

😾 (on loan from another web site)

OP posts:
biscuitandcake · 13/11/2024 00:48

@IwantToRetire There might be a person for whom X is the most important thing to them and they never get to comment on it. In that case, the importance of X to that person is missed. But if you are sampling 3000+ people then each "thing" will appear many times. The key thing about it is it isn't just the comparison between 2 things once that matters but the effect that has on their place within all the things being compared. For example, if eggs is ranked as mattering less than cheese 70% of the time, but cheese is constantly ranked below milk it pushes eggs lower. Likewise if cheese is ranked above milk then the relative importance of eggs is different. This means that even if in the unlikely scenario that eggs and bread were never compared together, we would have a pretty good idea of how important eggs and bread were just based on their relative position to other things.
I am probably not explaining it very well at all! But it is a recognised method that is used a lot in psychological surveys etc. It isn't very good at showing outliers (if Dave really really cares about milk we won't necessarily ever know that if no-one else gives a stuff about milk. Especially if Dave isn't asked about milk - that one person who did care isn't recorded. But it is good at detecting patterns of preference in anonymised data.
What it really is, and what all statistics/data analysis is really, is a scheme for people with an unhealthy interest in numbers and long words like transitivity to find employment.

IwantToRetire · 13/11/2024 00:33

But doing this lots of times negates that risk.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

But however many times you do it, it could still turn out that the most people never get to comment on the most important or least important issue to them.

Not sure if anyone is interested, but someone has attempted to write an article explaining why so many former Democrats stayed at home, only to get loads of comments about how the writer had totally missed the point.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/11/us/politics/democrats-trump-harris-turnout.html
or https://archive.is/8vBYF

Also from reading random articles, it seems to still rankle that somehow, even if she was the best candidate, having her forced on them, made some resentful.

Another more nuance explanation than are you pro or anti gender ID, is not that Democrat voters are against DEI but the way Harris / her campaign made it seem like a top priority. Whereas for voters it was bread and butter issues, and maybe if that got sorted there was time to look at other issues. (Sounds a bit like the borough where I live in London, lots of "correct" plans, projects, but all the time they are responsible for some of the worst social housing.)

OP posts:
biscuitandcake · 13/11/2024 00:30

@IwantToRetire If you are really interested a youtuber used pair ranking to find the best thing ever: (it was 2020 when everyone was mad). The final answer seemed pretty solid to me to be fair (and something I need to go and do now).

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALy6e7GbDRQ&t=277s

duc748 · 13/11/2024 00:18

When you are fighting a post-truth populist, its probably a good idea to prioritise the concept of truth yourself (or at least not to tell what look like very obvious lies to normal people). Otherwise people just think "both sides are as bad as the other". And that will keep happening each election until people's trust in democracy as something that can actually work is eroded.

As that guy in NCIS used to say, "You'd think". But apparently not, sadly.

biscuitandcake · 13/11/2024 00:18

IwantToRetire · 12/11/2024 23:51

Respondents were presented with random pairs of potential reasons to vote against Harris and asked to select which reason they found more compelling. Each participant evaluated four pairs drawn from a pool of 25 distinct criticisms.

Sorry - that is just a bonkers method IMO!

For all I know the survey I quoted did something similar, but on the basis of here is a long list, choose the top 10 or some such, I think is going to be far more accurate than random pairs.

What if the issue most important or least never came up in this random pairing.

Happy to have someone explain how this is more accurate as a method of a survey.

But, as said on the other thread I inadvertently posted on, the real question would be to try and find out what kept 10 million previous Democrats at home.

Debates over contentious issues aside. Pairwise ranking is a known survey method. Described here Pairwise comparison (psychology) - Wikipedia and here HoNWWWSubmit
It wouldn't necessarily be the best method if you were sampling 5 people. But it works well when sampling large numbers of people because it gives an overall "feel" quite well. As you observe, there is a problem if the most important issue never comes up. But doing this lots of times negates that risk.
I agree, that trying to find out why people stayed home is key. I guess most people in Pennsylvania etc will have reached their limit for political parties texting them/turning up at their door so I don't know how you would find that out...
I like statistics and the gathering of them :)

https://zoo.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs458/materials/HoNWWWSubmit.pdf

biscuitandcake · 13/11/2024 00:04

I don't think (from the other side of the pond) that trans rights was the biggest issue for most Americans. I do think that this was an election where one side (Trump) was not only constantly lying (not unheard of for politicians) but effectively playing this weird game where it was like truth didn't really matter and everyone just picked the reality they wanted. In that sort of environment it was really weird that the Democrats had hobbled themselves with the mantra that "transwomen are women, no debate". It isn't just about the clash of rights. When you are fighting a post-truth populist, its probably a good idea to prioritise the concept of truth yourself (or at least not to tell what look like very obvious lies to normal people). Otherwise people just think "both sides are as bad as the other". And that will keep happening each election until people's trust in democracy as something that can actually work is eroded.
Also, I do feel quite sorry for a lot of trans people in America right now who probably are scared of what a Trump presidency might bring, and maybe also seeing what looks like the left "turning on them" or blaming them for losing the election. It isn't really trans-people's fault that Trump won. And it shouldn't be the case that the left shouldn't care about trans-rights. Trans people deserve the same rights as everyone else. But actual politicians need to make sure that other people's rights aren't being suppressed/reduced in order to give trans people everything that everyone on left-leaning Twitter thinks they should have.

IwantToRetire · 12/11/2024 23:51

Respondents were presented with random pairs of potential reasons to vote against Harris and asked to select which reason they found more compelling. Each participant evaluated four pairs drawn from a pool of 25 distinct criticisms.

Sorry - that is just a bonkers method IMO!

For all I know the survey I quoted did something similar, but on the basis of here is a long list, choose the top 10 or some such, I think is going to be far more accurate than random pairs.

What if the issue most important or least never came up in this random pairing.

Happy to have someone explain how this is more accurate as a method of a survey.

But, as said on the other thread I inadvertently posted on, the real question would be to try and find out what kept 10 million previous Democrats at home.

OP posts:
lifeturnsonadime · 12/11/2024 23:01

IwantToRetire · 12/11/2024 22:35

For both Republican and Democrat voters gender affirming care, was the least important issue!

Harris voters:
Protecting democracy 68%
Access to abortion 67%
Healthcare 65%
The economy 60%
Climate change 57%
Gun violence 56%
Inflation 53%
Housing affordability 43%
Immigration 43%
Freedom of speech 42%
Crime and safety 41%
US' standing in the world 36%
US involvement in foreign wars 34%
Access to gender affirming care 28%

Trump Voters:
Immigration 72%
The economy 68%
Inflation 65%
Crime and safety 56%
US involvement in foreign wars 50%
Protecting democracy 44%
US' standing in the world 44%
Freedom of speech 41%
Healthcare 37%
Housing affordability 29%
Gun violence 20%
Access to abortion 18%
Climate change 9%
Access to gender affirming care 6%

Source https://www.investopedia.com/early-voters-determined-their-presidential-vote-economy-8739601

See image below for how that balanced out for voters as a whole - click to enlarge.

(Sorry if this post looks familiar, I posted it on another thread by mistake late last night ... Blush )

Yes but this poll shows that transgender issues and culture were the third biggest reason for the upturn to Trump.

'Gender affirming care' is a very odd / narrow thing to ask voters about. It ignores the wider picture.

https://blueprint2024.com/polling/why-trump-reasons-11-8/

The results paint a clear picture: Democrats were punished for inflation, misalignment on immigration and cultural issues, and Biden. The top three reasons not to vote for Harris were:

  1. “Inflation was too high under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+24)
  2. “Too many immigrants illegally crossed the border under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+23)
  3. “Kamala Harris is focused more on cultural issues like transgender issues rather than helping the middle class” (+17).
Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand

Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand - Blueprint

Harris couldn’t outrun her past or her party— it was a vice grip that proved impossible to escape.

https://blueprint2024.com/polling/why-trump-reasons-11-8

IwantToRetire · 12/11/2024 22:35

For both Republican and Democrat voters gender affirming care, was the least important issue!

Harris voters:
Protecting democracy 68%
Access to abortion 67%
Healthcare 65%
The economy 60%
Climate change 57%
Gun violence 56%
Inflation 53%
Housing affordability 43%
Immigration 43%
Freedom of speech 42%
Crime and safety 41%
US' standing in the world 36%
US involvement in foreign wars 34%
Access to gender affirming care 28%

Trump Voters:
Immigration 72%
The economy 68%
Inflation 65%
Crime and safety 56%
US involvement in foreign wars 50%
Protecting democracy 44%
US' standing in the world 44%
Freedom of speech 41%
Healthcare 37%
Housing affordability 29%
Gun violence 20%
Access to abortion 18%
Climate change 9%
Access to gender affirming care 6%

Source https://www.investopedia.com/early-voters-determined-their-presidential-vote-economy-8739601

See image below for how that balanced out for voters as a whole - click to enlarge.

(Sorry if this post looks familiar, I posted it on another thread by mistake late last night ... Blush )

US Election results
OP posts:
Lalgarh · 12/11/2024 15:49

Not the Russians and Chinese. Both are extreme nationalist and would have no truck with accommodating minorities. Maybe their progressive sympathisers who view them as unpleasant but a vital bulwark against Western Imperialism. Yer prison abolitionists and Refund Defund the Police folx (🙃). Yer one time Bernie Bros

TrumptonsFireEngine · 12/11/2024 15:43

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2024 15:34

The Russians and Chinese apparently.

To be fair, TikTok is Chinese

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2024 15:34

TempestTost · 12/11/2024 10:57

Who is "they" though?

It seems like it was about three people who decided it needed to change and they'd make it happen, whether others cared or liked it.

The Russians and Chinese apparently.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/11/2024 14:00

Which led mortified academics to ponder the levels of queerphobia in those communities as the likely reason for rejecting such an all inclusive term. #DoBetter

Grin
Lalgarh · 12/11/2024 13:48

That's their innate white(ish) privilege and Queerphobia ✊