Butlin's Skegness removes 5 trans women from female toilets

I emailed them yesterday and got a ‘we are dealing with a large number of enquiries’ reply. I bet they are!!

This!

I used to go to a gay club in central London during a v miss-spent youth (they never challenged my fake ID). There were actually transexuals and drag queens / transvestites there but they weren't in the women's loos and they were also quite obviously gay men being gay men.

Aside from the glasses, I'm getting strong Fae Johnstone vibes. Mad eyes and nose piercings seems to be de rigueur.

Can you imagine the meltdown that’s going in on Butlins PR dept today?

They're so fucking clueless. They constantly sneer about us being middle aged and not "inclusive" then say that raves have always been inclusive. Where do they think all the original ravers are now? We're all fucking middle aged!

Oh and there were no men dressed up as women in raves or even in gay clubs.

The rewriting of history absolutely infuriates me - Mixmag says...
"One day, we hope the rest of the world will catch up with the inclusion that has always been part of the rave scene."
Inclusion has not always been part of the rave scene!
Rave started 35 years ago - before 'inclusion' was even thought of!
Ravers wouldn't have gone along with the sad 1950s stereotypes or bloody conformed to them!

I think they were supplied by a private contractor, so Butlin's argument would be with the contractor, not the security guards. The statement from Butlin's seems to suggest that the guards weren't following protocol, so it might simply be to do with the way they handled the situation rather than just being about whether the men were transgender.

(English law is generally based on the principle of reasonableness, and whether someone is acting in a reasonable manner when assessing intent, which is why this matters).

That would be interesting.

How does someone responsible for safety on sight behave if they see 5 blokes, including some with facial hair, entering the toilets?

If they DON'T remove them and something happens their jobs are on the line.
If they DO remove them and a complaint is then made, their jobs are on the line.

They don't actually have much legal protection because these venues don't have an adequate policy over single sex provision / anti sexual offenses because so many of these venues are refusing to define what a woman is.

It leaves staff in a position where they have to make a judgement call without the support of their employer upfront.

What are supposed to do?

If can't assume anyone is a man, so they can't challenge anyone who looks male. That means they can't necessarily do their job.

This is where the 'reasonableness' test should be relevant. Is it reasonable to challenge, and if necessary remove, a group of people who you perceive to be male who are congregated in the female toilet if you are security guard tasked with ensuring safety of all guests and not automatically fear losing your job?

If the answer to this question is 'no', then we have all sorts of further questions.

look very similar to me

Except there seems to be a lots of young trans women in their early to mid twenties all looking the same.

Cos obviously women a) all look the same b) all look like that.

It's almost as if it's a fashion statement with added politics strapped onto the back of it.

Two different people.

I expect you're right, but they have the same long faces, the same thick lips, the same long hair, the same round glasses and the same mad eyes. Maybe it's what they think a woman looks like.

Two security guards at Butlin's Skegness were suspended after reports that they 'violently dragged' five trans women out of female-only toilets

Are the suspended security guards definitely female?

Only I'm struggling to work out how two female security guards would be able to violently drag five males out of a female only toilet. TBF I'm struggling to work out how two male security guards managed it.

JK is right though.

Given the nature of their typical client base they should clarify their policy on same sex facilities.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/butlins-skegness-security-guards-suspended-9623481

It'll be interesting to see how Butlin's handles this.

Two different people.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13948893/jk-rowling-slams-butlins-suspended-security-trans-women-toilets.html

https://www.vice.com/en/article/luna-spain-starbucks-trans-fired/

The Starbucks employee was called Luna Spain, but the two do look very similar - very likely the same person. One of the things that's become very clear over the past few years is that there are few dozen trans activists at most, but they are extremely vocal and turn up at all the demonstrations, kick up all the fuss in the media etc.

Chersfrozenface · Yesterday 15:29

If I were to come across a man dressed as a woman only for a short time - say in a bar, or a toilet - how would I know which he is?

Well now, the easiest way would be to befriend Layla Moran and take her with you, so that she could read their aura. Guaranteed 100%, every time.

I thought that too, however these entitled males all blur into one after a while.

Spotted this in the comments on the Daily Mail article:

"I thought- this person looks familiar- surely this is the strbux employee who was filmed being aggressive earlier this year so I looked it up. It is the same person- different name but I spose if you can change your gender whenever, what's in a name? The sbux employees name was Luna Park but its definitely the same person. I might email the article writer and mention it."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13948893/jk-rowling-slams-butlins-suspended-security-trans-women-toilets.html

Five of them going to the toilet all at once sounds suspiciously like something men whose understanding of women is based on stereotypes would do.

Funny how they apparently can't find real women to hang out with and have to go around in a big trans group. Seems even the "woke" crowd aren't actually that accepting.

Let’s face it , the TRA on the video was obviously a man, wasn’t even trying to pass as a woman, no wonder someone got upset, I would too and I’m 60 well equipped to deal with sad little men like these!

One for the “but how can you teeeellll???” crowd there

a reminder that selfies posted on social media are filtered to fuck