Women's jail campaigners demand transmen offenders should be kept in female prisons *Title edited at OP's request*

… was a transman

(ie was complicit in the ‘mix up’ - claimed to be a man, likely had M on ID, probably had an exogenous testosterone induced beard):

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/female-prisoner-sent-mens-maximum-34023334.amp

While we’re discussing Transmen in prison, it’s probably worth noting that this woman…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14009217/amp/Woman-prisoner-wrongly-sent-male-jail-forced-stay-overnight-masculine-features.html

These women are obviously not going to be safe in the male estate, whatever flawed perception they have of how they are seen by others.

I read a Reddit thread yesterday where not one but 3 five foot 1 "trans men" were trying to claim that they definitely passed to everyone.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/strip-searches-trauma-isolation-trans-men-describe-life-bars-rcna6490

From the US, describing the experiences of 'transmen' in jail.

I had a quick Google and read a tiny bit of the book. The author, from the photo, looks like Sam Spade's much younger sister wearing a tatty moustache. Must have been in the vanguard of the current fashion for claiming a trans identity. Seems to have made transrights a career, if not a monomania (impact of the War on Terror on transgender rights anyone?). From Wikipedia seems to have had the usual traumatic childhood. Although in many ways inspiring, a real pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, definitely a grafter. Seems to have all the RSOH beliefs; abolish prison, anti-Israel, etc.

'Jim', must also have been an early adopter possibly prior to 2011. I'm struggling to believe the story as told, there's a lot missing. 'Jim' apparently has a DSD but must be a biological female because she menstruates. She may have been incorrectly observed as male at birth although was raised as a girl, doesn't say. There's nothing in the vignette that says 'Jim' legally changed her gender, I don't know if that was even possible then. There's no mention of her legal sex. She's somehow on testosterone but has to stop when jailed, hence the periods. I suppose it's possible that she was very masculinised by the hormone and that's what the various law enforcement bods went off? Possibly with documents that erroneously recorded her sex or she'd somehow got changed? Anyway our hero, at least for the purposes of the propaganda book, leaves 'Jim' sentenced to an unknown length of time (possibly five years) in a male jail. For all I know she's still there.

Considering the massive increase in girls and women who claim to have a trans identity, often accompanied by an unstable mental state, 'Jim' can't be the only female who's run foul of the American justice system. What's happening to them all?

Given how small the female prison population is relative to the male, and how vanishingly tiny 'transmen' are likely to be within that population, a wing is unrealistic, but the handful of women involved should make it a fairly easy issue to manage safely.

I actually think trans men would be very vulnerable to sexual assault if housed in a male prison on same wing as men.
They should be in their own section if possible in female prison. Same as trans women should be in male ones. But for slightly different reasons obviously.

I used to struggle with that too, until I heard (think it was Helen Joyce?) the explanation that if you replace "trans" with "fake" it makes sense.

Case report from New York state, in "Normal Life" by Dean Spade.

Jim is a woman who thinks she can become a man, and the judge puts her in the men's jail. You can get the whole book as a PDF if you search online.

If you find that preface and read the first two pages but substitute the correct (female) pronouns, it's glaringly obvious how badly-treated this woman has been. The male pronouns obfuscate that.

Exactly. It's intentional fogging and blurring pushed on the media and everyone else by political activists, mostly at this point I see no other drive than to smash boundaries in about the same way toddlers smash mashed potato, with about the same level of thought, emotional intelligence and ego involved.

It's bollocks. We've had: 'what is a woman/anyone who identifies as a woman' - which in fact means females and males who want to identify as women, based on everyone fully understanding that 'woman' is a female adult and so a man identifying as one is a man engaging in a personal fiction of being a woman. With a whole lot of social pomo wangling about 'constructs'.

'What is a male/anyone identifying as a male' is flat bollocks. Male is a fixed unchanging biological fact, it's not a chosen social reality. You might as well be talking about trans horses at this point.

Any female requesting to be jailed with males is indulging in self harm and should be referred for psychological support.

This is fucking obvious.

Thanks. That’s more of it. Constant deliberate obfuscation. So sick of the mangling of language.

The headline is from the Daily Record. Complain to them.

There is no such thing as a 'trans male'. Male and female are biological sex based and fixed realities, and not identities. Remove that muddle and there's no further problem. There are some female people who for varying reasons want to identify as being something other than a girl or woman. The female prison estate is for all females based on the reality of sex based needs and differences, and should accomodate all additional needs and diversities of female.

There is probably a growing conversation to be had about how to hold violent and disturbed female prisoners on testosterone in the women's estate for the needs, protection and safety of other women, but that's a different conversation.

The headline on this thread is very misleading. I thought you were talking about men. Can you change it please.

Shawn Meerkamper of the Transgender Law Centre (tlc) said, “This bill is a necessary…harm-reduction measure that will allow our trans family to seek safer situations while incarcerated.”

And the women? The ACLU attitude (final line) sums it up.

Undoubtedly some transgender prisoners are vulnerable. tlc says that “prisons and jails routinely subject transgender people in their care to…harassment, sexual assault and violence”. The inspector’s report said 19 of the 22 inmates transferred, and 16 of the 28 due to be, said that they had been victims of violence because of their gender identity; 20 of the 22, and 17 of the 28, said they had been threatened. Some change is now happening, as trans inmates win lawsuits for being denied “necessary” medical care.
The women’s groups point out that women are vulnerable, too, and should not be put at risk in order to protect vulnerable inmates in men’s prisons. Studies in 2016 and 2017 found that nearly 90% of women in American prisons are victims of previous sexual assault. Help from civil-rights groups is scarce. In response to an inquiry about inmates moving from male to female prisons in Washington state, the aclu sued to block release of the data

archive version for those for whom it works: https://archive.is/OD99f

Scotland had recorded one trans-identifying female held in the men's estate a couple of years ago. It is possible this was an error, especially given how bloody confusing the terminology is for everyone.

The headline is misleading, females together, males together - simple. No trans nothing.

FFS I wish people wouldn't use terms like 'trans male' when they're talking about a female!

I can just about accept 'transman' (no space), but the words 'male' and 'female' are absolutely about sex and in no way related to identity. I read 'trans male' as 'male who is trans', which is just a male. But that article is using it to mean a female, which is just plain WRONG.

No wonder people who are unfamiliar with the Identity Shitshow get confused!

Males need to be in male prisons irrespective of how violent (or not) they are or how girly they look.

And prisons need to take care of their prisoners.

Bad behaviour in male prisons is not a female prisoner's problem to solve.

Does anyone know how women who claim a trans identity are treated in the more batshit American states. I know in some of them a rapist claiming to be a tw would be off to the women's prison before he could finish saying 'I am a woman', but I've heard nothing regarding prisoners going the other way. It must have happened though.

Women, however they identify, should not be imprisoned with men, even men who claim lady brainz.