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Original poster

Women's jail campaigners demand transmen offenders should be kept in female prisons *Title edited at OP's request*

241 replies

IwantToRetire · 27/09/2024 01:29

Women's jail campaigners are demanding that the growing number of trans male offenders should be kept in female jails.

Dr Kate Coleman, of Keep Prisons Single Sex, said that the instances of women identifying as men mid-sentence is a “growing problem”.

But she believes that such prisoners should be treated as women - and that moving them to men’s prisons or a special “trans unit” would be misguided and dangerous.

“Whilst the focus, rightly in my view, has been on the risks that males who identify as transgender pose to women in prison, the challenges of adequately and appropriately meeting the needs of females who identify as transgender must be addressed.

“These needs must be met within the female estate.

“I understand that females who identify as men are difficult to manage.

“But there is no quandary about where to house her. She is female and belongs in the female estate. She must be managed in a way that is continuous with the way in which all other female prisoners are managed. Housing her in the male estate is not even a question that should be asked.

“This is for her own safety and for her own benefit as it is in the female estate that she will be able to access the services and programmes that are necessary for her to progress.”

NB Only extracts, NOT the whole article which can be read in full at https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/womens-jail-campaigners-demand-trans-33750904

Women's jail campaigners demand trans men should be kept in female prisons

Keep Prisons Single Sex claims there are more and more women self identifying as men in women's jails - but male estate would be a danger to them

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/womens-jail-campaigners-demand-trans-33750904

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
FranticFrankie · 27/09/2024 11:54

Nasty, violent- but still a woman
Articles need to very clearly specify the terms
transwoman and transman as the general public often don’t know

Snowypeaks · 27/09/2024 11:35

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 27/09/2024 11:28

I wonder why there is a growing trend of female offenders claiming to identify as men after conviction? What is in it for them when facing prison?

I wonder if such action reflects and optimism that because men who transition after conviction have featured in news stories when they've been spared prison on the grounds of their transition, they will also be spared prison if they transition, on the grounds of considerably greater vulnerability if they were to be placed in the male estate.

I can't currently logic puzzle my way through how to express my other thoughts so I'll stop here.

Ah... Yes, that could be it. And especially with the prison accommodation crisis. Hell of a gamble to take, though.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 27/09/2024 11:28

I wonder why there is a growing trend of female offenders claiming to identify as men after conviction? What is in it for them when facing prison?

I wonder if such action reflects and optimism that because men who transition after conviction have featured in news stories when they've been spared prison on the grounds of their transition, they will also be spared prison if they transition, on the grounds of considerably greater vulnerability if they were to be placed in the male estate.

I can't currently logic puzzle my way through how to express my other thoughts so I'll stop here.

happydappy2 · 27/09/2024 11:01

This headline is misleading-the person in question is female and so should be in a womens prison.

uncutdiamonds · 27/09/2024 09:44

Kendodd · 27/09/2024 09:20

Can't help thinking that if you house female prisoners in men's prisons, you will have pregnant inmates.

Exactly. Even if no-one cared about what happens to the adults, it's utterly reprehensible to bring a child into all this.

Snowypeaks · 27/09/2024 09:22

Deleted

Kendodd · 27/09/2024 09:20

Can't help thinking that if you house female prisoners in men's prisons, you will have pregnant inmates.

Snowypeaks · 27/09/2024 09:14

Missed the editing window:

In the first para of my post above I was thinking about the police reassurance that rapists will no longer be recorded as women and housed in women's prisons - for women's safety. I thought how sad that men claiming to be women become men again when the prison service thinks they are a danger to women. As if that is what makes a man a man.
It's as bad as thinking that a man can become a woman if he is sufficiently attractive.

Snowypeaks · 27/09/2024 08:56

Absolutely right, Kate Coleman. Violent, disturbed, yes - but female, so should be in women's prison. Being violent is much more prevalent in men, but it is not part of the definition of a man.

How awful to be assaulted and murdered for a fiver and a packet of cigarettes. That poor, poor woman.

I don't know Earlly's history, but I can't be the only one who is thinking that adding testosterone to the mix in a woman or girl who is raging inside from having suffered SA or is experiencing homophobia internalised and external is not a great idea.

Also, I wonder why there is a growing trend of female offenders claiming to identify as men after conviction? What is in it for them when facing prison?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/09/2024 07:00

legalseagull · 27/09/2024 05:41

In my work I've represented a few female to male transmen staring down the barrel of prison sentences. They have ALL wanted to go to female prisons - they know the danger of male prisons and how they will be treated there. I can't see any biological female wanted to jump sides - I can't say the same for male to female - not because they're predatory (as is the worry on MN) but because they too believe they will be abused by male inmates because they present as female. I of course don't think they should be allowed in the female estate, but I sympathise with their difficulties and more needs to be done to help vulnerable prisoners.

Whilst this is true, trans women are far from the only vulnerable male prisoners. More needs to be done to protect them all, not just this one group. If I were the mother of, say Zahid Mubarak, I'd be pretty angry if special arrangements were made to keep trans women safe in men's prisons, but people like my son were still thrown to the wolves.

PriOn1 · 27/09/2024 06:53

legalseagull · 27/09/2024 05:41

In my work I've represented a few female to male transmen staring down the barrel of prison sentences. They have ALL wanted to go to female prisons - they know the danger of male prisons and how they will be treated there. I can't see any biological female wanted to jump sides - I can't say the same for male to female - not because they're predatory (as is the worry on MN) but because they too believe they will be abused by male inmates because they present as female. I of course don't think they should be allowed in the female estate, but I sympathise with their difficulties and more needs to be done to help vulnerable prisoners.

Some of the men who claim they are women are undoubtedly predatory. It doesn’t have to be one or the other and pretending only nice men will transition is simply a fools game.

minisoksmakehardwork · 27/09/2024 06:01

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

legalseagull · 27/09/2024 05:41

In my work I've represented a few female to male transmen staring down the barrel of prison sentences. They have ALL wanted to go to female prisons - they know the danger of male prisons and how they will be treated there. I can't see any biological female wanted to jump sides - I can't say the same for male to female - not because they're predatory (as is the worry on MN) but because they too believe they will be abused by male inmates because they present as female. I of course don't think they should be allowed in the female estate, but I sympathise with their difficulties and more needs to be done to help vulnerable prisoners.

PatatiPatatras · 27/09/2024 05:34

The thread title made my head hurt.
What is a trans male?
You mean a transman? So a female wanting to be seen as a man?

Either way, the content seems to make sense.
I wouldn't throw a female into a male prison... no matter how "not like other girls" she thought she was.

TooBigForMyBoots · 27/09/2024 03:15

She's right.

Ramblingnamechanger · 27/09/2024 03:08

Kate is right of course. The whole notion of self identifying is nonsensical, and only brings advantages to the men trying it on who get super special treatment . There are many disturbed individuals who need to be contained safely, but the needs of others also need to be considered, in the case of men . Women will be put in danger in a men’s prison, obviously. What is seriously lacking is adequate mental health services , education and training.