What brought you here?

I have never believed that TWA - literally - W. I used to work in a psychiatric hospital where there was a support group for transvestites - even they didn't believe it so it was a shock to find that we all had to collude.

I used to follow a blog by a mormon interior designer and I really enjoyed her content and thought she had an interesting perspective - and she said she was feminist. However, I got banned FOR LIFE 😂for politely pointing out that it wasn't fair for males to compete against females in sport due to (obvious) physical advantages. I couldn't believe that such an innocuous opinion - and one based on science and reality - was considered to be verboten.

Finally, at the sports club that I used to go to a tw decided that it was absolutely necessary that he change with the teenage girls despite being a male and in his fifties. The girls didn't want this but there were plenty of people telling them they were bigots for having boundaries. Topsy-turvy world indeed.

These incidents and more made me seek out some sane opinions and I was happy to find them here!

@RedToothBrush that's a moving and thoughtful post. Its such a disruptive ideology. Thanks for sharing. 💐

This was it for me too. I came to MN in 2008 for advice on bfing etc as I’d just had a baby. Over time, I started reading AIBU and other boards. I started reading feminism threads and learnt a great deal. I began to see more and more threads about trans ideology and initially thought people were perhaps not Being Kind but I peaked in about 2015. Thanks MN 🙏

Very moving, Red toothbrush
Thank you.

Yep. I am.

I'm many many years down the road now.

That's sounds really difficult @RedToothBrush and it must have been hard that your mum wasn't backing you up. It hurts the direct families the most I think. Hope you're in a better place now.

It's that sense of something being 'off' but not quite being able to process why and it not going away. And not understanding why it's bothering you so much if it's not a big deal.

My degree was media based so it was never ever just going to be something that I just accepted. I needed to question and work it out.

Trying to make sense of information given to me by my brother and my own sense of making peace with being female after years of hating it.

'The instance of being trans is 1 in 10000'
If the instance of being trans is 1 in 10000, what are the chances of there being 3 of you in two year groups at school who all know each other including two of you who are in the same class? It didn't make sense. It suggested either social contagion or something environmental. It didn't match patterns of spontaneity. I went through years of worrying whether there was something locally where we lived (eg chemicals or the water) or somehow someone has caused it (fears he had been sexually abused - he'd been heavily bullied and there were also reasons to think sexual abuse was a possibility) or social contagion and worries about it possibly being genetic (keep in mind I was going through the thought process of having a child at the time).

'It's not about gender stereotypes'
If it's not about gender stereotypes, why on earth are you taking lessons to walk like a woman, having electrolysis, wearing bras and dressing like a manga character. Indeed why is manga and anime such a big hobby in this community. That's odd if it's spontaneous and not environmental. What the fuck is going on here?

'I'm still the same person as I was before'
If you are still the same person, why are you asking and expecting me to treat you differently? Why are certain subjects suddenly off limits. Why is everything now about walking on eggshell to not upset you?

Rejection of fiancé
Rejection of my fiancée despite living under the same roof citing 'prejudice' - he hadn't even been told at this point. So it was somewhat unfair to call him prejudice and was somewhat prejudging him. The hypocrisy was off the scale.

Abuse
The completely unprovoked abuse we got from his partner. We'd been warned about it prior to meeting the partner by my mum. My mum didn't challenge the way we were treated once and came up with a bunch of excuses and why we should put up with it.

Relational identity
The sinking feeling of being asked innocently 'do you have any brothers or sisters?' and then having to decide between telling my truth and being able to relate to others, telling a lie and then feeling awkward because I couldn't relate and couldn't explain why I couldn't connect or having to explain to people I didn't know very well and just wanted a shallow polite conversation something pretty heavy. The idea that TWAW kinda falls apart at this point as does the 'be kind' and the notions of it 'just like being gay'. It was having a profound impact on my own identity and sense of self and how I related to other. At this point I gradually started the process of realisation that identity isn't just an individual thing disconnected to others. You have multiple identity issues - some individual but some of the most important are relational with your family relational identity being one of the most important without you even realising.

None of this added up. All of it involved me putting my brother before me without regard. Behaviour which would have been unacceptable in any other situation was not only tolerated but excused and justified.

This all coincidenced with me struggling with being a woman and pressure to have a baby by society because I'm female and a body clock starting to go off and significant birth fear.

And total disillusionment and frustration about sexism and abuse of women in online gaming communities. I found I was being tried totally differently with a gender neutral or male user name. The second that it became apparent you were female the disrespect and the abuse started. This was also true on Facebook.

MN had none of that shit and it liked swearing. The trans issue wasn't why I came here but it became relevant because of my personal experience and trying to process it. I realised it was actually harming me in the end. MN make me realise just how make centric and bollocks so much of it was.

So perfect storm really.

@woollyhatter what an excellent post! stands up and cheers

India on CBB telling all the women to be nice whilst

I met a man a number of years ago who worked in a manual job and I clocked that he had long hair and perfectly manicured long nails, which I thought a bit strange given the impracticalities for the job that he did, but really didn't give it too much thought. Be kind and all that. He'd always given me the creeps tbh but as he transitioned his mannerisms changed and became "fluttery" - hand gestures and eyelashes, leaning in too close when talking etc which just gave me a visceral reaction whenever I saw him coming. Then there was a while where he disappeared and when he came back it was with a new (female) name, huge breast implants, low cut tops, too short skirts and stiletto heels. It was such a ridiculous spectacle on this huge lumbering man. I found it impossible to square the circle and believe that this man was now actually a real woman.

A few years later I discovered MN and following my divorce and subsequently living on my own for the first time I spent an awful long time on here and found myself reading the posts of some very wise and sadly long since banned women. I found people that agreed with me. I no longer bought the "be more kind" mantra while Madigan, Challoner and Yaniv were quite frankly taking the piss. Names kept coming up with more and more unsavoury stories. Rather than being investigated they were shut down with impunity. And it turned out that we were called out for being in the wrong, the eloquent, reasoned voices and rational discussion. Women were being arrested, losing their jobs and reputations. While the right side were making god awful threats, physically assaulting women and getting away with it.

MN thank you. It has been a bumpy ride and no doubt this will continue but you let us speak (despite some censure!) but I do feel that the tide is finally turning.

He’s the absolute worst

I'm in my early 30s and for me it was the treatment of JK Rowling and how she became public enemy number one despite saying things that just felt like common sense to me! I'm a huge supporter of LGBT rights (I am bisexual myself although married to a man) but I started noticing that if you didn't agree that all toilets should be unisex or that any man who identifies as a woman is a woman then you were immediately a terf. I also really didn't like the pronoun in the workplace thing. I feel it puts women at a disadvantage for the sake of a very small minority. I also worry about young autistic girls being vulnerable to gender dysphoria as an explanation of any difficult feelings. I support trans people but I don't see why women have to give up their spaces/ rights in order for that to happen. Finally, Sam Smith saying "why can't I be a mummy if I want to identify as one" enraged me as someone who has laboured with a vagina.

Philosophy article by Alex Byrne via an article by Katherine Stock. I had bought the idea that sex is a spectrum and the philosophy piece on what was necessary and sufficient to define 'woman' brought me up short. I looked at the spectrum thing again and realised it was utter nonsense (had similar epiphany - but much quicker - reading descriptions of reading that said we did not 'hear' what the words on a page but 'absorbed' the meaning). Glad I came tho get my head snapped off occasionally.

A daughter who thinks she's a boy, together with a suspiciously high number of friends. A couple of awful months when the only resource that I found that was advising caution was 4thwavenow, but the posts at the time were quite old with no follow up. Finally finding Wider Lens, that at the time had a few episodes out. I think I found Mumsnet after I listened to the episode with Helen Joyce, while looking for info on her. The journey with our daughter continues, with some small progress.

Helen Steel and the anarchist book fair.

I read somewhere - probably the Guardian - about some trouble there. My instincts were to side with what I thought of as a marginalised group, but then read that they were claiming Helen Steel was some sort of fascist.

Helen Steel?! THE Helen Steel?! A fascist?!

I hunted around trying to find more info, but could find nothing in the mainstream press and only frothing misogyny elsewhere. Then I found mumsnet - what an eye-opener!
it took me a while to lose my blinkers entirely, but it wasn’t long afterwards that Bergdorf spouted anti-women hatred, and then there was rubber-wanking-at- work man. I kind of thought that would be the end of it all … how naive.

Though maybe it was the end of the beginning.

I’m male by the way, and constantly grateful to the marvelous women of mumsnet, for keeping me informed and teaching me a lot when nobody else was brave and honest enough.

A long time lurker, occasional poster with frequent name changes. I think it was 2016/7 that I noticed the old FWR posts started talking about gender ideology and the impact on women. I remember the total disbelief I had at the time, I just couldn't get my head around it. I was shocked and bewildered tbh. It took a while for me to process. I think it was the uproar around JKR liking a tweet by MB that it hit home.

In my view, one of the most harmful things that's happened is the politicisation of women's concerns and the fact it's now being used as a wedge issue between left and right - in the USA as well as here.

It means there is infighting and that people can write off the concerns as being "right-wing bigotry" or "left-wing wokerati" rather than having a productive conversation.

When I was looking through old threads (linked a couple upthread) it was really striking how constructive the conversations were, even when people disagreed. There was no having a go at OPs for "wrongthink" in terms of topic or source.

I remember reading and talking to Dittany here. She predicted a lot. Id love to go back on the old threads to see where we all went wrong, but they're like swiss cheese and impossible to read.

People who think trans ideology is basically ok, and its the tories/stonewall who let it get out of control are kidding themselves. Women could see what was going to happen years before.

Fair play to you. By the way love the username. Give my regards to Martha Longhurst!

Came for AIBU. Stayed for FWR. Over ten years ago. Loved the courageous Magdalene Berns. Thought this would never touch me then DD got sucked into the cult. She reckons she's non-binary now which at least is medication free but I worry how close to the edge she is and whether a determined TA could lure her back in.

lots of different WTF moments led me back here for meaty reading about feminism in practice.

Did a history PhD back in the dark ages about the Dark Ages in the days when it was called Women’s History. Had to read Foucault, Cixous and Butler just when they were the cutting edge. Would struggle through these obscure densely written articles, and, as was my habit, try to summarise the key ideas. Basically 10,000 word academic articles always seemed to boil down to sex roles can be used to exert power and privilege but can be slippery to define, so let’s try to define them by making up new badly punning portmanteau nonsense words. Honestly, I kept scratching my head as to what all these thinkers, who took themselves so very seriously, had to say which was of substance. Just seemed like bollocks and look now how captured academia has become by this self-serving tautological garbage.

Then volunteered at LGB switchboard before it became the alphabet soup it is now. We had a regular caller who I didn’t mind who was trans but she only really want to chat about what she was wearing (always lingerie) and what her boyfriend was going to do to her when he got home. I think she was being cheap as it was in the days of phonelines for sex and we were freephone. After months of this, I did have to gently point out that she was tying up one of two lines and she hadn’t really moved on from her schtick and since we were there for counselling or info I didn’t think we were helping her progress much anymore. Then (in the late 90s) I kinda shrugged my shoulders. No harm no foul since I wasn’t easily shocked, but it was telling that other team members were not happy about her calls. I think I was being kind then but not really considering the consequences of the caller on others.

Then I remember this guy standing up in 2002 in an equalities conference, I was at for work, and asking what are we meant to do when one minority group’s rights impinged to the detriment of another’s? A gathering of 1000 experts in London and no one could answer him. Looked around me and wondered exactly what the point of all this was. As a POC I think this whole my oppression is worse than your oppression is an utterly zero sum game. No one has ever explained adequately to me how a man cosplaying a woman is OK from a white person putting on yellow-face is not.

Then I had my baby boy in the late 2000s and went back into toy shops and really could not get my head around how everything was sex-segregated and that we seemed to be going through a time where understandings of gender were so much more binary than when I was a kid. Progress was stalling and actually going backwards for feminists.

And then all this current weirdness converged into young people hating on JKR, Hadley Freeman, Kathleen Stock for saying perfectly sensible and quite funny things about the massive cognitive dissonance of TWAW. As a vanilla lesbian mummy I find all the queer pink/blue haired kids railing against and name-calling these wise women (with some actual life experience) and substituting sexuality for an actual personalities just bizarro. Young lesbians having to sleep with TW for fear of their peers thinking them transphobic and cancelling them is frankly offensive.

My favourite GC heretic is Helen Joyce as she is such a fiend for calling out and naming the logical fallacies in TRA arguments and pithily demolishing them. Same sort of thing that happens here at MN. No room for sloppy thinking with stakes this high ie children’s safeguarding which obvs trumps middle-aged dudes having mid-life crises and cosplaying being women.

Finally, it is blindingly obvious to me that feelings are not facts and substituting emotions for evidence is an express train to crazy town as far as policy making in all areas of work, health, education, government and family life. I am all for critical thinking which I think has almost all but disappeared for fear of trampling on the delicate fragile psyches of the vulnerable minorities out there.

The pushback is coming. My kids are super eye-rolly about it all and think virtue signalling is anathema. It does seem after about a decade of madness this too will pass.

Someone suggested here that all middle-aged women who run out the house, having not bothered with make up and stick to low maintenance haircuts should declare themselves enbies to kill that trend stone dead. By God that would work a treat. I declare my enby name is Scrabble Dee Shunerry.

I can't remember clearly but I think it was from following Graham Linehan on Twitter. I was already on MN from years ago and dipped in occasionally but I came back on when there was all the hoo hah about him being cancelled.

I just couldn't get my head around why what he was saying was thought to be wrong in a lot of circles, so I started reading more into it on this board. And I still can't get my head around why so many apparently intelligent people think he's out of order!

Ladybrain brought me to being GC. Discovering that people thought women had some sort of different pink fluffy brain, and through that having my eyes opened to the reimposition of harmful stereotypes, exactly the sort of thing we had rebelled against in the 1980s. And the combination of the inherent sexism of that taken with the inherent sexism of having male people being seen as spokemen (!) for women made me realise that this wasn't about being kind to a very small group of marginalised people who were deeply unhappy with their bodies or an extension of gay rights, which I had always strongly supported, but a new means of marginalising women.