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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What brought you here?

234 replies

CyclingSam · 09/09/2024 15:32

I have Rachel McKinnon to thank, with a strong assist by Magdalen Berns.

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Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 20/04/2025 16:55

I remember Maria MacLachlan, she was the start of my peaking.

It was the Lib Dem Jo Swift who finalised it in 2019, when she thought shouting 'TWAW!' would make her prime minister.

TWETMIRF · 20/04/2025 16:37

Heylo · 20/04/2025 16:27

One of my friends friends came to my house with her and told me I was transphobic for not wanting to date a tw. (Im a lesbian). She told me that they ‘use their penis in a completely different way to ‘CIS’ men). After that I broke ranks, bought Kathleen stocks book and desperately looked spend for GC and women. Took me 3 months but eventually found some.

I agree that they use their penis differently. Transwomen like to get it out in women's spaces and film themselves having a wank. Even better if there are actual women and girls present

Lovelyview · 20/04/2025 16:34

Heylo · 20/04/2025 16:27

One of my friends friends came to my house with her and told me I was transphobic for not wanting to date a tw. (Im a lesbian). She told me that they ‘use their penis in a completely different way to ‘CIS’ men). After that I broke ranks, bought Kathleen stocks book and desperately looked spend for GC and women. Took me 3 months but eventually found some.

That's appalling. I can't believe there is anyone dumb enough to believe these abusive men.

Heylo · 20/04/2025 16:27

CyclingSam · 09/09/2024 15:32

I have Rachel McKinnon to thank, with a strong assist by Magdalen Berns.

One of my friends friends came to my house with her and told me I was transphobic for not wanting to date a tw. (Im a lesbian). She told me that they ‘use their penis in a completely different way to ‘CIS’ men). After that I broke ranks, bought Kathleen stocks book and desperately looked spend for GC and women. Took me 3 months but eventually found some.

Heylo · 20/04/2025 16:25

Gawjus · 20/04/2025 01:36

I was going about my life, blissfully unaware that there was any problem in this area. I had in my life occasionally come across a genuine transsexual who had had the operation and living their life quietly and without drawing any attention to themselves or making any demands, just quietly trying to pass in the ladies toilets etc. Then a woman who I just happened to be friends with on Facebook was assaulted by someone. That caught my eye and made me read the newspapers and also her Facebook feed. That woman was Maria MacLachlan.

Through her story I found out what had been going on and instantly became a terf. I have been campaigning ever since.

That’s a brilliant peaking story ♥️
the guy who hit Maria - he genuinely thought he’d get away with it. The way he walked into court was like wtf to I have to be here

RethinkingLife · 20/04/2025 09:28

nauticant · 09/09/2024 18:12

I think this might be the earliest surviving Spartacus thread on here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/2716595-TransAgenda-BullShit-The-I-am-Spartacus-Thread

Edited

Reading through all those completely sane and on point declarations that have been affirmed by the SC - I feel quite emotional.

Here since before separate subfora existed and you had to keep tracking down the thread.

Gawjus · 20/04/2025 01:36

I was going about my life, blissfully unaware that there was any problem in this area. I had in my life occasionally come across a genuine transsexual who had had the operation and living their life quietly and without drawing any attention to themselves or making any demands, just quietly trying to pass in the ladies toilets etc. Then a woman who I just happened to be friends with on Facebook was assaulted by someone. That caught my eye and made me read the newspapers and also her Facebook feed. That woman was Maria MacLachlan.

Through her story I found out what had been going on and instantly became a terf. I have been campaigning ever since.

TWETMIRF · 19/04/2025 15:48

Yes, Hayley was a very good thing for the TRAs as that's who many people think of when transwomen are talked about. The reality is more Bernard Manning in attitude towards women

NorthernBogbean · 19/04/2025 15:15

Apologies for the length of this, you don't have to read it.

I became aware of 'Trans' as a thought experiment in 1990s academia. The period when postmodern culture, 'queer theory' as a branch of 'identity theory' and multiple -isms began to dominate my subject-area and - at varying speeds - all the others. At the time, it was just so much academic noodling, destined, I assumed, to stay on the academic holodeck and so just more interesting strands of conversation.

At the time, a respected female academic wrote a small medical sciences paper in which the notion of 'trans-sexuality' was compassionately cited as a kind of sex/gender cognitive dissonance and problem of embodiment. I used to use it in teaching. By about 2014, I realised I couldn't use it for political reasons. Over the next four years, I dropped most of the 'gender' topics in my teaching - it had become an 'eyeroll' topic, and a switch-off for male students who found it uncomfortable (a.k.a 'boring') and female students who were so often influenced by cool boys.

Anyone who thinks that's my failure should contemplate the huge pressure to satisfy student-customers on bulk undergrad courses which was rising in UK universities. In my HEI, courses were reviewed at the end of the academic year, and any which didn't achieve a high enough popularity rating were replaced.

It's also the case that too many 'feminist' academics writing about gender more or less abandoned empiricism from the '90s on, preferring a self-referential trail of citations of 'culture' and 'theory' and 'progressive' politics. And all the earlier feminist analysis written about language and gender was drowned in postmodern, intersectional soup when Trans NewSpeak came into universities.

I realised the heat was being turned up when I was screamed at by a mature 'neuro-divergent' male student at the beginning of hashtag no debate when I prevented him from shouting at an 18-year-old girl who had said, innocently, that transwomen were 'not biologically women'. The aftermath of that taught me that management would not support me in any crisis caused by 'Trans Issues'.

The first time I realised theory had become practice and was lurching down to the village was when a social work friend told me she'd had an 'awareness training' session from a transwoman who had cited all the poorly-researched 'stats' about murdered transwomen and told them that if they failed to treat him/her in all aspects as a woman, they were acting illegally and s/he would be able to prosecute them. This was around 2016 and I was hearing about the self-certification proposals re GRA for the first time so was already looking for discussion on the net so would have found MN somewhere at that point.

There's a paper to be written on The Hayley Cropper Effect because I suspect this popular representation of a nice, quiet, post-surgical transwoman was in the minds of the over 30s when the GRA then self-cert was in play and when TRAs began to be more active. I remember the campaign about Hayley getting her birth certificate changed, very sympathetic - and why not? A damaged, dysphoric Harold, part of a tiny demographic, who just wanted to live peacefully - and you were never really reminded of Harold since nice Hayley was played by a woman.

CyclingSam · 19/04/2025 13:02

I see it's exactly a year since my wife's extremely unpleasant encounter.

The morning of Judgment Day I was out food shopping. I told her to text me with the news; I could have checked myself, but wanted to hear it from her. So it came to pass that around 10 am in a SE market town a man could be seen dancing a jig in a Waitrose parking lot.

Oh to have been in at the Supreme Court in close proximity to some of the women I hold in such esteem! Weather permitting I'm planning on going to Let Women Speak next week at Reformers' Tree, and would love to meet any other Mumsnetters also making the trip.

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Grammarnut · 19/09/2024 22:19

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2024 15:36

That is an issue. I have developed the habit of removing my clippers and phone pre-loo after a number of tumbling out incidents. More tiresome is winter dungaree wearing when I have a fleece and a cardigan to remove before I can even get the straps down, with my post-menopausal bladder screaming "hurry up!"

But hey, no risk of builder's bum. Sturdy construction. If you have the type with the hammer loop you can use that for clippers (used to, don't now).

Sigh! My post-menopausal bladder doesn't give warnings like that!

CyclingSam · 19/09/2024 16:48

She was having an intimate exam with two nurses when he barged into the room and got an eyeful. (He's active on Twitter. She recognised him.) One of the nurses quickly pushed him out; my wife got the distinct impression that hadn't been the first time.

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ExtraordinaryMachine1 · 19/09/2024 16:20

A friend gently teased out my thinking and helped me see that being kind only works in one direction. I'm so grateful to her. She put me onto Mumsnet, and I have learnt such a lot through lurking and seeing arguments played out. [My dear friend - if you are reading this, next lunch is on me xx]

The main thing that brought me to understanding the lie that is gender ideology was my friend telling me about self-ID. I thought, as I often do, about the tragic Soham murders. How can it possibly be that we have forgotten that part of the reason Ian Huntley slipped through the (then) CRB net was that he changed his name? How can we not see that this dreadful man would probably think nothing of self-ID? Those poor, poor girls; how can we have moved on, how can we forget them so quickly?

Then other thoughts, other peaking occurred. My friend told me about ERC and Wadhwa. My father sexually abused me as a child, just twice: on the second occasion, I headbutted him so hard that the world span and I saw stars. But so did he. He didn't try that again on me. I don't know about anyone else but have my suspicions, and now he's dead. If a man can do that to his daughter - well, there's no stopping him is there? Identifying is as nothing, isn't it? The GP was hopeless. My friend held me and cried with me at my outrage that I cannot talk to our local crisis centre about this.

Other internet peaking. Reading testimony from a man identifying himself as a woman. Watching people that I know in real life fawn over him - stunning, brave, I understand so much now - in his M&S-stylee twinsets. Seeing him grow in confidence. Seeing him start writing porn about girls the same age as my own daughter. So stunning, so brave. Me: so sick, so glad that someone - a man - had the confidence to call him out when I didn't.

Other internet peaking. A former male friend undergoing "transition" surgery. Him and his trans buddies making lewd jokes about a chew toy, making out it's a sex toy. Me - kindly, gently - explaining that chew toys are used by lots of children and adults with SEND such as those with non-verbal autism. They carry on laughing, making jokes. Where is the kindness? How can they not be embarrassed? The former friend charts his surgery journey. I think: dilation is for midwives, this is grotesque.

Other peaking. My sporting hobby means the world to me. I am not the fastest and I will never go the furthest, but I do keep going and it brings me joy. My governing body haven't yet awarded a woman's prize to a man. But I know how outraged I would be if that happened.

That was long. Wild ride. Madness. Thanks @CyclingSam , I needed to write that down. I'm so sorry for your wife, that sounds like a dreadful experience for her.

SpinUp2 · 19/09/2024 15:59

DSDs and the Rio 2016 800m women's final.

DeanElderberry · 19/09/2024 15:48

I probably had long ago. They were bought for archaeology type digging (proper workwear, better quality, lower VAT) but now get used for gardening and have absorbed so much mulched grass that they have turned from their original (faded) navy to an odd blackish-green. They don't get worn to parties. Useful garments though, won't deny it.

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2024 15:36

DeanElderberry · 19/09/2024 15:26

Do they have useful pockets? My regular (very ancient) gardening dungarees are fine until I go to the loo, the chest pocket goes upside down, and everything in it (odd bulbs, seed pods, secateurs) ends up on the ground.

That is an issue. I have developed the habit of removing my clippers and phone pre-loo after a number of tumbling out incidents. More tiresome is winter dungaree wearing when I have a fleece and a cardigan to remove before I can even get the straps down, with my post-menopausal bladder screaming "hurry up!"

But hey, no risk of builder's bum. Sturdy construction. If you have the type with the hammer loop you can use that for clippers (used to, don't now).

DeanElderberry · 19/09/2024 15:26

Do they have useful pockets? My regular (very ancient) gardening dungarees are fine until I go to the loo, the chest pocket goes upside down, and everything in it (odd bulbs, seed pods, secateurs) ends up on the ground.

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2024 15:19

A couple of things brought me here. First, my DD. She had just had her first baby and was on MN. She was talking to me about what was going on with the "Trans thing", and I had not been properly aware of the details. Almost everything was under the radar then and very very rarely in the news. DD was basically saying to me that adults should have choices about how they live their lives within reason, but we should live in a society where they do not feel the need to alter their healthy bodies. I agreed and lurked on MN.

Around this time I was out with friends and my friend's partner asked me in a provoking manner "so I suppose you love Jordan Peterson?" because I am Canadian living elsewhere. I replied, "Certainly not!" and then realised that because I left Canada shortly before JP became well known I didn't really know anything about him. I just knew other 'right thinking' people disapproved of him.

Because l went away and educated myself (ahem) I found out about Bill C 16 which had just been proposed in Canada, and the threat to freedom of expression. Also witnessed the actions of the strong lobby groups promoting Gender Ideology in Canada. JP and Meghan Murphy spoke at the Senate Committee during the consultation but in 2017 the Bill became law.

So I have been on MN from 2015 ish, lurking for the first two years. Then many name changes. This one I adopted after re-lurking for a long time. The crazy lady calling a baby a fascist at the Brighton LWS brought me out of hiding because I was there that day, it was utterly wild, and she was wearing the same Lucy & Yak dungarees that I own, even the same colour. Posters on MN were dissing her dungs as childish and while I was appalled at her actions I had to support the noble dung! They are great for gardening, people. Just saying.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 19/09/2024 13:41

NoBinturongsHereMate · 19/09/2024 13:19

The site owner calling us shitstains was definitely a lowlight.

I think that was the day I left. I saw that we were called 'shit stains on the site' and thought 'Fuck this, I'm off'. Deleted my bookmark and never went back.

Snowypeaks · 19/09/2024 13:39

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2024 13:10

Snowypeaks. You cunt. In the nicest possible way.

(I thought I'd get in there before someone else. Sorry).

👍😄

NoBinturongsHereMate · 19/09/2024 13:19

DeanElderberry · 19/09/2024 13:08

I can't remember exactly what we were called on the old place but it likened us to the less salubrious contents of a cesspit. Cesspits were definitely mentioned. This place (not just FWR) was so pleasant by comparison - there was a level of schoolboy spite and a habit of nasty pile-ons and name calling there that I don't miss.

The site owner calling us shitstains was definitely a lowlight.

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2024 13:10

Snowypeaks · 19/09/2024 13:01

I agree. No-one has called me a cunt on FWR.

So far.

Snowypeaks. You cunt. In the nicest possible way.

(I thought I'd get in there before someone else. Sorry).

DeanElderberry · 19/09/2024 13:08

I can't remember exactly what we were called on the old place but it likened us to the less salubrious contents of a cesspit. Cesspits were definitely mentioned. This place (not just FWR) was so pleasant by comparison - there was a level of schoolboy spite and a habit of nasty pile-ons and name calling there that I don't miss.

Snowypeaks · 19/09/2024 13:01

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2024 12:59

I always find the comment that MN is rude really out of touch and a remark from people who have little experience of other social media.

It's remarkably civil compared to other websites I've used. I came here in part because of that.

I agree. No-one has called me a cunt on FWR.

So far.

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2024 12:59

soupycustard · 18/09/2024 18:50

Haha Sometimes the rudeness does make me laugh! But I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of it!

I always find the comment that MN is rude really out of touch and a remark from people who have little experience of other social media.

It's remarkably civil compared to other websites I've used. I came here in part because of that.