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SinnerBoy · 11/09/2024 16:35

TorghunKhan · Today 08:41

This is not true. “Rare earth metals” are not even slightly rare, they are badly named.

Whilst it's true that they're not actually rare as a percentage of the crust's composition, they are rarely concentrated in economically viable deposits. There is currently a rush to locate more and several deposits have been located in North America.

It never used to be a problem, when Cerium was the main target, used in small quantities for things like lighter flints and some others for doping computer chips and other electronic components.

Similarly, there is about 20 million tons of gold dissolved in the oceans, but the cost of extraction would far outweigh the commercial value of it.

Whoever used Lithium as an example, it's not a rare earth metal, it's an alkali metal. There's a sizeable deposit of lithium ore in Cornwall, whose granite is rich in various lithium minerals. It's about 30 years since I went on a field trip, but in Megaligga (?) there is a vein of lepidolite, a lithium containing mica - loads of beautiful specks of it

Alwaystired94 · 11/09/2024 15:34

SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 15:33

I can, if they are a massive twat.

thats what i mean, he's shown time and time again he has nothing but contempt for women!

SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 15:33

Alwaystired94 · 11/09/2024 15:22

I couldn't imagine someone being this obviously anti-feminist and yet people suggesting otherwise? boggles the mind.

I can, if they are a massive twat.

OP posts:
Alwaystired94 · 11/09/2024 15:22

CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 15:19

Eeeewwwww.
He really is vile vile vile.
I wonder if given the rumours about Oonagh Heard he was merely offering his superior autist sperm and access to a surrogate network.

He is antifeminist on so many levels.

I couldn't imagine someone being this obviously anti-feminist and yet people suggesting otherwise? boggles the mind.

CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 15:19

Eeeewwwww.
He really is vile vile vile.
I wonder if given the rumours about Oonagh Heard he was merely offering his superior autist sperm and access to a surrogate network.

He is antifeminist on so many levels.

biscuitandcake · 11/09/2024 15:15

Rather than handing out children to random childless women, maybe he should give the existing mothers of his children custody of those children? Charity beginning at home and all...

biscuitandcake · 11/09/2024 15:04

Its attention seeking is what it is.
Also, bleeeeeurghhhhhh

I feel a bit sorry for Taylor Swift, because its obvious she didn't want to get drawn into political commentating but got nagged into it - people on Trumps side producing Swift for Trump memes, and people on Harris' side getting angry at her for apparently being friends with a republican leaning woman. People complain about celebrities "the elite" getting involved in politics/talking about who they will vote for but then force them to do so.

Alwaystired94 · 11/09/2024 14:59

this has really pissed me off.

It's him trying to punish a woman by implying he will impregnate her. it's disgusting sexual harassment. Vile human Musk is. Shows how he values women doesn't it?

OP posts:
CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 12:04

Yes. However we are getting off topic, which is the twattiness of Musk 😂

SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 11:54

The tin mines is a good example of what is likely to happen with lithium. It will get harder and more expensive to extract so costs will go up.

Until there is oversupply and the price falls.

Underlying all of this (of course) is OPEC. Which hasn't been mentioned once. However much they are paying their media strategists, it's reaping billions in returns.

OP posts:
CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 11:47

Well yes @SerendipityJane . I was educated on "the oil will run out soon" but that's not happened yet.

The tin mines is a good example of what is likely to happen with lithium. It will get harder and more expensive to extract so costs will go up.

I doubt Musk is going to advance humanity with his EV vehicles. He's just spinning the hamster wheel.

SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 09:25

Hmmmm

a few years ago the world of tech was going to collapse because China imposed quotas on their rare earths metals, and they were the global supplier.

I read a paper at the time by an economist, who expertly delivered the right amount of condescension in writing saying "Bless the Chinese, they think they can game the market". His - totally accurate prediction - was that as soon as the price rose because of scarcity, then other sources would be found and the market would adjust accordingly. Which is exactly what happened, with a few US based mines getting very rich. No shortage of rare earth metals - indeed the price fell as the supply exceeded the previous amount.

Cornish tin is an example of this closer to home Price of tin rises - all of a sudden those uneconomic mines look rather more viable.

As a schoolchild I remember hearing the UK had 300 years of coal reserves. I wonder where they went ?

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 09:05

Electric, self driving, point to point transport that you can order when you need it for less money than a car, or a bus or a taxi is obviously the future,

Now you're thinking !

I am confident we will actually have within 6-9 years in all western metropolitan areas. I’m fairly sure I will only now one more car, and maybe not even that give the battery can still do 220 miles on one charge.

🤔

Careful chasing the tech side. Start a thread about shared self driving cars ..

you first have to convince the 96% of people who reply with "but that doesn't suit me" that it does. And that isn't easy. And even if you do, you need to make it stick.

In 2019 95% of companies confidently stated that WFH was (I quote) "impossible" for them. Not, "difficult", not "doesn't fit our needs", not even "we don't like it". No. "Impossible". (Personally I try to avoid definitives in predictions).

Come 2020 when it was WFH or bust (literally) and a lot of firms mysteriously suddenly did the impossible, and WFH was not only "possible" but inmost cases mandatory.

And we have spent the past 3 years being gaslit back into it being "impossible". With a massive social amnesia, aided by a complicit press and the politics of envy.

However, people who pay attention would do well to remember that "can't" is too often used as a fig leaf for the much more political "won't".

OP posts:
TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:56

Well I’ll comment - a shortage does not mean “not enough to make cars”

It means the price goes up, better mining techniques are developed, better surveying tools are invented. Like they have done with every other resource ever from tin to coal to oil.

Why do you have so I little faith in humanity ability to solve problems?

TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:55

SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 08:51

If you want electric cars, you will have to accept you won't own one*. For a whole host of reasons that are a complex intersection of the technology, the infrastructure and the economics. Try getting an "AI" engine to understand that you are happy to put £50,000 on your drive or in your garage and then not use it for 85% of the time and see what it suggests you do with your money.

There will be local pressures as well. Some idiots in the UK appear to have taken a knock to the head and woken up thinking they can upend millennia of common law and just take ownership of the highway because of their special magic milk float. Which is never going to happen. If for no other reason than MN would simply collapse under the weight of parking threads. And that's before you start on the cable strewn pavements which will make them impossible to walk, let alone wheel along. Although I suspect that won't be a problem for long. If you want to leave 20Kg of copper in the street, that's your gift to the local unofficial recycling community. (Other jurisdictions may have different approaches to how the public highway is owned).

I will grant Lord Musk this: he has twigged that most of problems he faces are really social and cultural problems masquerading as "tech" problems. But that isn't really "genius", Or if it is, I wrote about it for my degree over 40 years ago in "social impacts of computing". Covered "AI" and personal computing. Completely missed any hint everyone would be packing a massive computing engine in their handbag by 2000 though.

*Are statistically unlikely to.

It’s more like 96% of the time a car is not in use.

Electric, self driving, point to point, commodity, publically owned, transport pods that you can order when you need it for less money than a car, or a bus or a taxi is obviously the future, and one that I am confident we will actually have within 6-9 years in all western metropolitan areas. I’m fairly sure I will only now one more car, and maybe not even that give the battery can still do 220 miles on one charge.

CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 08:53

TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:52

It’s not rare. China has loads for example. Better mining techniques, recycling and reusing batteries, job done.

Not sure what you’re covered in, but it’s sure not glory, or even facts. Smells a bit though.

Posting without comment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/29/a-worldwide-lithium-shortage-could-come-as-soon-as-2025.html

A worldwide lithium shortage could come as soon as 2025

A worldwide shortage for lithium could be on its way as demand for the metal ramps up, with some analysts forecasting that it could come as soon as 2025.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/29/a-worldwide-lithium-shortage-could-come-as-soon-as-2025.html

CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 08:52

Cba to argue about whether or not humans will go extinct, as hopefully we will all be dead before it happens. Although sometimes it feels like it could well happen sooner than we think with global warming, pollution etc

I'm sure Elon has a contingency bunker somewhere. A bit like you, me and the apocalypse

TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:52

CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 08:50

OK then.
You aren't covering yourself in glory here. Maybe just stop and have a cursory Google of things like lithium scarcity before you insist you know best.

It’s not rare. China has loads for example. Better mining techniques, recycling and reusing batteries, job done.

Not sure what you’re covered in, but it’s sure not glory, or even facts. Smells a bit though.

SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 08:51

TempestTost · 10/09/2024 23:19

It's a pretty serious limitation. If we switch over entirely to electric cars in the next few years as some would like, we will have to do so much mining for rare metals that we'll just have destroyed the environment in a different way.

And huge numbers of cars are resource heavy no matter how you slice it, electric ones even more so.

I find the whole "the tech will improv" thing a bit funny. I don't really see how it's fundamentally differernt than "we'll figure out with tech how to scrub pollution from the atmosphere". It's really just a faith statement.

If you want electric cars, you will have to accept you won't own one*. For a whole host of reasons that are a complex intersection of the technology, the infrastructure and the economics. Try getting an "AI" engine to understand that you are happy to put £50,000 on your drive or in your garage and then not use it for 85% of the time and see what it suggests you do with your money.

There will be local pressures as well. Some idiots in the UK appear to have taken a knock to the head and woken up thinking they can upend millennia of common law and just take ownership of the highway because of their special magic milk float. Which is never going to happen. If for no other reason than MN would simply collapse under the weight of parking threads. And that's before you start on the cable strewn pavements which will make them impossible to walk, let alone wheel along. Although I suspect that won't be a problem for long. If you want to leave 20Kg of copper in the street, that's your gift to the local unofficial recycling community. (Other jurisdictions may have different approaches to how the public highway is owned).

I will grant Lord Musk this: he has twigged that most of problems he faces are really social and cultural problems masquerading as "tech" problems. But that isn't really "genius", Or if it is, I wrote about it for my degree over 40 years ago in "social impacts of computing". Covered "AI" and personal computing. Completely missed any hint everyone would be packing a massive computing engine in their handbag by 2000 though.

*Are statistically unlikely to.

OP posts:
CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 08:50

TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:46

tl;dr

Yes Humans will be able to survive and thrive on Mars, as well as the moons of the larger gas giants.

No, humanity will not go extinct. If you want your particular bit to, go for it, the rest of us have something to say to the universe.

OK then.
You aren't covering yourself in glory here. Maybe just stop and have a cursory Google of things like lithium scarcity before you insist you know best.

TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:46

CassieMaddox · 10/09/2024 17:42

OK fine, but just because I quite enjoy arguing with techbros. I'll do it with sources and everything.

99.9% of all species that ever existed are extinct. https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dinosaurs-ancient-fossils/extinction/mass-extinction

Humans are like all other animals. Eventually we will go extinct. Trying to avoid that on a population level is as fruitless as trying to avoid death on an individual level, and in my opinion (this is the non scientific bit) just as narcissistic.

So that's why the first para is pointless, before you even get to whether humans could viable survive on Mars.

Here's some info about Apollo (for readers, not you, you know this already)

https://www.quora.com/How-much-fuel-does-it-take-to-launch-a-rocket-into-orbit-How-long-would-that-fuel-last-if-the-rocket-remained-in-orbit?top_ans=1477743684300655

203,000 gallons of kerosene and 318,000 gallons of liquid oxygen. This is approx. 6, 896, 316, 116, 393.501 calories according to this (https://www.convertunits.com/from/gallon+[U.S.]+of+kerosene/to/calories#google_vignette)

1 gramme of wood contains 4 calories of energy. So this is approx 2,240,790,291 kg wood.

According to Quora the average weight of a tree is 1000 to 6000 kg (https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-a-tree-weigh#:~:text=The%20mass%20(not%20the%20weight,tons%2C%201000%E2%80%936000%20kg.) Let's take 3500kg for this.

The equivalent energy to the kerosene needed to launch apollo is 640,225 trees.

Assuming this as a guide you need 1100 to 2500 trees per hectare.
https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/sustainable-farming-incentive-pilot-guidance-plant-trees-to-extend-existing-woodland/

Taking the middle for the calculation again, the amount of trees needed to provide the energy would need 356 hectares, or 3.5km sq of trees.

For reference, the US have estimated the average person uses 640lb (290kg) of wood per year. America is a high user of resources so this is generous.

https://apps.fs.usda.gov/forest-atlas/benefits-wood-products.html#:~:text=With%20more%20than%20313%20million,each%20side%2C%20every%20single%20day.

The energy needed to launch apollo is equivalent to the wood needed for 7.7 million Americans.

3.5 km2 of trees/ wood for 7.7 million people seems quite resource intensive therefore I also think your second para is not accurate.

Having cheap space flight enables a staggering amount of human advancement that you just don't get any other way.
Having cheaper space flight might enable human advancement you don't get any other way is a more realistic way of putting it. Assuming we don't all die from climate change before those benefits are theoretically realised.

This para is your opinion. It's OK for people to disagree. Even if they are "low T"

tl;dr

Yes Humans will be able to survive and thrive on Mars, as well as the moons of the larger gas giants.

No, humanity will not go extinct. If you want your particular bit to, go for it, the rest of us have something to say to the universe.

TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:42

SerendipityJane · 10/09/2024 17:57

Electric cars are going to be a dead end. I think he believes they will develop tech to overcome their limitations,

The only limitation is batteries. A real EV Evangelist would have concentrated their research and manufacturing on swappable batteries, not dodgy non-self driving features.

I know there is a breakthrough in battery technology due "in 5 years". Same as there was in 2010 when I was involved in strategy and the question "what's with EVs came up". We managed to get that right, Bitcoin right, 3D printing right, driverless cars right and generation rent right. All of which were (and still are) of very keen interest to insurers.

Hot stoppable batteries are and always have been a dead end because they take up at least twice as much room as built in batteries and it requires all manufacturers everywhere to use the same spec which stifle innovation. Hot swappable batteries are in fact the dead end you talk about.

TorghunKhan · 11/09/2024 08:41

TempestTost · 10/09/2024 23:19

It's a pretty serious limitation. If we switch over entirely to electric cars in the next few years as some would like, we will have to do so much mining for rare metals that we'll just have destroyed the environment in a different way.

And huge numbers of cars are resource heavy no matter how you slice it, electric ones even more so.

I find the whole "the tech will improv" thing a bit funny. I don't really see how it's fundamentally differernt than "we'll figure out with tech how to scrub pollution from the atmosphere". It's really just a faith statement.

This is not true. “Rare earth metals” are not even slightly rare, they are badly named.

CassieMaddox · 11/09/2024 08:30

autumnreset · 07/09/2024 19:36

Ok, I have questions.

Did he basically just say 'interesting observation' and the meme/ the actual statement wasn't something he himself said or further commented on?

Is he publicly known to be using an illegal drug called ketamine, (and isn't that the one that can cause severe incontinence issues)? Do you not get in trouble with the law about being public with that (you clearly have connections with a drug supplier)?

My T is low but also I have some brain fog, possibly as a symptom of peri menopause.

Keep seeing this quoted in the reply so I googled it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/18/tech/elon-musk-ketamine-use-don-lemon-interview

Shock

Elon Musk details his prescription ketamine use, says investors should want him to ‘keep taking it’ | CNN Business

Elon Musk said he is “almost always” sober during his late-night — or, in some cases, very early morning — posting sessions on his social media platform, X.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/18/tech/elon-musk-ketamine-use-don-lemon-interview