People who have the condition are born with ovaries?!

I hate this assault on language. From the people who brought us the Style Guide too, so concerned as to whether to use actor or actress. But that was inconsequential by comparison. This attempted erasure of the word 'woman' is, literally, Orwellian. And it's a very bad faith argument to attempt to claim that it's all being done for the benefit of a few individuals who identify as men. If anyone is seriously trying to claim that.

Can we please not derail this thread into another discussion about those boxers? There are plenty of other threads for that.

PCOS is an issue which affects so many women and girls. I'm certainly never going to be happy about the distorted, disrespectful, non-inclusive language of the sort employed by the woman who wrote that guardian piece.

Two boxers failed their organising body's eligibility test for women's boxing. The test was based on chromosones. That is the basis for questioning their sex. Why do you think neither boxer appealed the test?

Not going to @ you all individually because you’re all making the same point - you call her a man but you don’t have x-ray vision, aren’t her doctor or part of the IOC… Thanks for proving my original point, though. Never happy, you lot.

I know and that incensed me. Not only is iit nonsense but I cannot imagine what that would do to a young teeneager struggling with the diagnosis and coming to terms with it. Really something all caring for teenage girls need to be aware of

It's ludicrous. It does indeed only affect 'people with ovaries' - who are therefore unequivocally female, regardless of 'gender identity'.

Also, some politicians lie. Including about what comes up on doorsteps (or while fleeing down the garden path).

@Boudiccaofsteel unfortunately not only do these idiots claim that PSOC makes you trans they also claim that it makes you intersex 🤬

They do mention women once they start talking about actual factual research.

Just almost choked on my coffee on the train, thanks for a bit of light relief Patati

@rollypanda in the interests of fairness, I dont think we know that either.

(For me the entire problem with the IOC's allegedly inclusive approach (in fact, total abdication of responsibility) is that individual medical histories and appearance get openly bandied about. Given the situation, I can't be sorry that we actually did get confirmation that Caster Semenya does have a DSD only known in males, but it is only due to the IOC's ludicrous system that it ended up being known at all. Now we have others being caught up in sports politics. If the IOC gave clear guidance to affiliated organisations on making sure that their categories are not breached by those who don't belong to the category, individual histories could remain private - we'd know that anyone who turned up in an Olympic category has already provided appropriate proof of their right to be in it. Currently we don't know either way).

exactly, a circle of madness, where one decision made by some knob head skews every article for years to come

It 'doesn't come up on the doorstep' because they run away if you start to mention it.

It comes up as they flee down the path saying 'I can see this isn't going to be a useful discussion.'

The copyeditor will be at the mercy of the style guide for the publication.

I had to fight quite hard once against 'menstruating people' being imposed on a damn article about health issues in pregnant women. They were very much not menstruating.

He's gone through male puberty. So most likely no ovaries.

I've had a subscription to The Grauniad for a couple of years, but cancelled it recently because of just this issue.

Thank you. Clue is in the user name I simply have got to the point where I do not give a damn what anyone thinks of me they will have to deal with their lack of intelligence or empathy. But I do wish I'd learned that lesson much earlier in life as PCOS did stop me doing things most obviously dating but also meant I lacked confidence in the early stage of my career until I had a fantastic ( male ) boss who was very supportive.

I look back on my teenaged self moping around in her bedroom and think that if someone had told me some of the things I would have the chance to do as an adult, travelling, reaching the top of my career, meeting some amazing people then I never would have believed them. So if you are one of those younger women ( or you are mum or nan to a younger woman with the condition) then please don't let PCOS ruin your life. You'll need a robust sense of humour, a good set of healthy recipes and prioritise your fitness. And unfortunately you may need to spend a bit more on good quality clothes if you are a bigger girl which make a difference. But above all do not believe the rubbish on the internet ..: or indeed the Guardian. I read that article and it was absolute rubbish that makes PCOS look like some whiny self pitying condition

It's The Guardian, what do you expect?

Transactivists can’t even cope with their own mangled language.

From the Guardian story:
Infertility can also be a significant blow to one’s sense of gender identity [my italics]. When Anne Kamau, a 42-year-old salesperson from Nairobi, was diagnosed with PCOS, her gynecologist told her she might never have children. “I felt like he’d taken away something core to a woman’s life,” she says.

Yes, that is a painful loss.

No, it doesn’t mean she started identifying as male, non-binary or anything else. So it’s not about ‘gender identity’.

But it would be silly to expect sense or consistency from people who willingly talk nonsense.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/01/scientists-develop-cheap-and-quick-spit-test-for-prostate-cancer

Apparently men get prostate cancer not people with prostates.

Yeah, in PCOS because of insulin resistance (this woman developed prediabetes because of it!) of course diet is important. I think I was fortunate that the 'low GI' concept came up at the right time for me.

No because the argument would be that lots of men don't know what a prostate due to lack of education is or have limited levels of English...

BTW, I have/ had PCOS. I think if the doctor had called me a person with ovaries I'd have thumped him. ( since the menopause I no longer have symptoms, even the excess hair has gone!)
On another note, would they talk about people with a prostate?

I read it first thing when I was still very tired and not quite woken up yet and it took me a while to realise what was being said. At first I thought how did I get through a science degree many moons ago without realising that we’re not born with ovaries and they just somehow develop during adolescence?? I almost googled it before realising they’re trying desperately hard not to say women/females 🙄

And from the recent BMA motion it seems some of the qualified medical profession think people can change sex which is beyond terrifying. I have little faith in the medical profession at the best of times due to the appalling treatment some of my family received but to think that those supposedly qualified could be so stupid beggars belief