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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Men's clothes"

138 replies

FannyCann · 30/08/2024 09:39

This was posted on X

x.com/hazelappleyard_/status/1828749446030733652?s=46

I'm just shocked how many posters are referring to the image on the left as "men's clothes".
It's how I dress most of the time. These are clothes that surely most women will have in their wardrobe at least for casual wear, maybe a more fashionable/tidier version but similar.
They are everyday clothes, commonly worn, by both sexes so I suppose if one had to assign a sex to the clothes it would be gender neutral (which isn't a sex obviously, I know, don't bother correcting me).

FFS are we truly going back in time - to when? The 1950's? The 1850's?

Forget the bloke in a skirt - I don't care, but the implication that everyday casual wear is "men's" has made me fume.

Rant over.

"Men's clothes"
OP posts:
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/08/2025 18:28

JanesLittleGirl · 12/08/2025 13:50

I also have a skirt collection now numbering over 50

But this isn't a fetish. Of course it isn't.

Yeah, that leapt out at me too

JanesLittleGirl · 12/08/2025 13:50

I also have a skirt collection now numbering over 50

But this isn't a fetish. Of course it isn't.

CinnamonCinnabar · 12/08/2025 13:35

I'd think an adult woman wearing the outfit on the right was oddly dressed - looks like cos playing a Disney girl character. A plain dress with sleeves (or plus cardi/jumper) is a more equitable comparison to woman in joggers and a hoody.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/08/2025 13:22

Barleymower · 12/08/2025 09:49

It's not about clothes really its about people and peoples preoccupation with labelling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that no man ever wears a skirt or other female coded clothes for sexual reasons.
No of course not, men can wear clothes for sexual reasons. Sex is a part of our lives, we cannot condem men or women for being sexual beings. Fetish? They seem harmless enough, it seems more about dressing up than anything else.
It's an odd situation really that two identical beings with different genitalia are treated so differently from birth. If we were all treated the same the world would be a better place.

And in fact, sexual motives aside, do you honestly believe, given how gendered our culture has been, not one single man in the world puts on female-coded clothes (not that clothes or styles are intrinsically male or female, as many robe-wearing long haired men through history would agree, but nevertheless constructed as such by society) specifically because they are women's clothes rather than men's clothes, and the fact that they are woman's rather than men's is significant to him?

There will be men who wear womens clothes because they are womens clothes for sure. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. Here's why: the man in question may love women dearly and love their beautiful clothes. Should he be condemed for wanting the same for himself?
Then the men who feels sexual in womens clothes. It isn't necessarily a bad thing in a healthy loving relationship.
There are bad people out there but we should not let their actions shape our lives. Be safe but don"t let it get to you and don't condem everyone on the actions of one.

It's been nice talking to you ladies but it's probably time for me to go. I'm a married man with a wife of 20 years and three children. I do my best to love and care for my family. I also have a skirt collection now over numbering over 50. My wife wears some of my skirts and my daughter had one off me practically before it hit the mat. I dont have any dresses as such, my shoulders are too broad. I wear my skirts with shoes and socks and a shirt or tee shirt. I feel very lucky that my family accepts me for who I am without judgement.

It's an odd situation really that two identical beings with different genitalia are treated so differently from birth. If we were all treated the same the world would be a better place.

And then

the man in question may love women dearly and love their beautiful clothes. Should he be condemed for wanting the same for himself?
Then the men who feels sexual in womens clothes. It isn't necessarily a bad thing in a healthy loving relationship.
There are bad people out there but we should not let their actions shape our lives. Be safe but don"t let it get to you and don't condem everyone on the actions of one.

There is a disconnect between the first and second statements no?

You seem genuine but like many men you are hopelessly naive about the reality of women (female people)'s lives and a little blind to how you are flipping between contradictory statements to justify what you want to do anyway.

That is normal and understandable. But from the perspective of a woman, it's clear that these social justifications are being filled in afterwards.

Going back to It's an odd situation really that two identical beings with different genitalia are treated so differently from birth. If we were all treated the same the world would be a better place, absolutely it would be a better world if that were true. But that is not the world we live in today. Arguably, even in the most utopian fantasy, one where Patriarchy and all the misrepresentation of women that it has wrought and we women still have to deal with had never happened, it could still never be the the case due to our differences in physical strength and the different physical, emotional and social cost and consequences of reproduction.

But certainly, in the non-Utopian reality we actually have to live in it is not the case.

So even while doing what we can to make the world better in the future, we also have the deal with the world as it is today.

And that means acknowledging that fpr we women living in the here and now, society has constructed meanings around women's clothes that are reductive and harmful to women, and women therefore have every moral right to question men who desire to adopt our clothing specifically because it is women's clothing.

Because we know that for too many of these men, maybe not you but enough to spawn pages and pages of porn, fantasy and misogynic rage, behind that desire is a belittling and offensive idea of womanhood, one they feel a desire or compulsion to adopt or inhabit in a way that they do not believe is open to them as men in men's clothes regardless of how skirted, sparkling or soft those clothes may be.

I feel very lucky that my family accepts me for who I am without judgement.

Perhaps you and your family really are those rare unicorns for whom clothing that the rest of society wrongly or rightly codes as "female" genuinely does carry no baggage, no connotation whatsoever of the sex who more usually wears it.

However if that is the case, please be aware that this unusualness also blinds you.

Women have genuine reason to feel discomfort or grievance when men take it upon themselves to redefine what it is to be a woman or reinterpret our experiences as embodied female people moving through life with all that entails including the pressures and meanings overlaid onto what we wear through the lens of their male experience.

If that is not you I am very glad. But please do not take it upon yourself to assume you know better than us how other men treat us when you are not there.

JellySaurus · 12/08/2025 11:26

*the man in question may love women dearly and love their beautiful clothes. Should he be condemed for wanting the same for himself?
Then the men who feels sexual in womens clothes. It isn't necessarily a bad thing in a healthy loving relationship. *

Fetish? They seem harmless enough, it seems more about dressing up than anything else.

I wonder what this man's thoughts were when he chose his outfit. Should he be condemned for his choice? Did it demonstrate a loving relationship? Was it the right place for ' harmless dressing up'?

Can you imagine that it is possible for others to have different motivators to you?

https://x.com/sappholives83/status/1954875660725260646

https://www.tiktok.com/@susanltrowe90/video/7535496322883849494

unwashedanddazed · 12/08/2025 10:47

Well he's gaslit his own wife and daughter enough to supress their judgement, so why not the rest of womankind?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/08/2025 10:40

Or like Mr don’t be judgy, they want to guilt and pressure us into pretending we can’t see it

unwashedanddazed · 12/08/2025 10:22

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/08/2025 09:57

God the male skirt wearers who have popped up on this thread have waved all the red flags. It’s an instructive reminder of what the kind of men who make a big deal of wearing ‘women’s’ clothes are like. Despite how creepy they are I hope the posts are allowed to stand

They make my skin crawl. They think we can't see it. Hence fuck off is the only reasoned response.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/08/2025 09:57

God the male skirt wearers who have popped up on this thread have waved all the red flags. It’s an instructive reminder of what the kind of men who make a big deal of wearing ‘women’s’ clothes are like. Despite how creepy they are I hope the posts are allowed to stand

Barleymower · 12/08/2025 09:49

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/08/2025 00:46

I don't "worry" about men in skirts any more than any other man.

I don't worry about men who are respectful of women as equal human beings and respectful of our boundaries, but I "worry" about men who exhibit sexist and entitled behaviour around women, and I "worry" about men (and women) who think it is character traits (often including clothing choices) that make people "men" or "women" rather than just the simple fact of ones sex because that's going right back to old fashioned sexism that I thought we were well past by now.

And that applies whatever those men (or women) happen to be wearing.

But since you want to talk about specifically about clothes:

Clothes are just cloths, but they are worn by people, and as you point out people create meanings.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that no man ever wears a skirt or other female coded clothes for sexual reasons.

Obviously I would not suggest that every man who puts on a skirt does so for sexual reasons, but I would not suggest that no men do either.

After all, there's a lot of people in the world. There are people who believe themselves in love with buildings. There are people who think they can talk to the dead. There are people who believe, truly, honestly believe, they are in a reciprocal relationship with a celebrity that have never met in person and send them passionate letters and gifts.

Throughout human history, society after society has constructed all sorts of meanings around clothes. In the case of female-coded clothes, those meanings are often sexual not because the cloth is inherently sexual but because society has coded the female body as a symbol for (ironically) male sexuality and male sexual reactions, and so things associated with the female body become sexualised as well.

So doesn't it seem unlikely to you that there would be no men with fetishes attached to female-coded clothes?

Do you honestly believe, in a world where it's a common joke that anything you can think of it someone somewhere's fetish, not one single man in the world ever puts on female-coded clothes (not that clothes or styles are intrinsically male or female, as many robe-wearing long haired men through history would agree, but nevertheless constructed as such by society) because they give him a sexual frisson?

And in fact, sexual motives aside, do you honestly believe, given how gendered our culture has been, not one single man in the world puts on female-coded clothes (not that clothes or styles are intrinsically male or female, as many robe-wearing long haired men through history would agree, but nevertheless constructed as such by society) specifically because they are women's clothes rather than men's clothes, and the fact that they are woman's rather than men's is significant to him?

And if you do believe there are no such men in the world, how do you explain the men who openly say they do do these things? Are they lying?

It's not about clothes really its about people and peoples preoccupation with labelling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that no man ever wears a skirt or other female coded clothes for sexual reasons.
No of course not, men can wear clothes for sexual reasons. Sex is a part of our lives, we cannot condem men or women for being sexual beings. Fetish? They seem harmless enough, it seems more about dressing up than anything else.
It's an odd situation really that two identical beings with different genitalia are treated so differently from birth. If we were all treated the same the world would be a better place.

And in fact, sexual motives aside, do you honestly believe, given how gendered our culture has been, not one single man in the world puts on female-coded clothes (not that clothes or styles are intrinsically male or female, as many robe-wearing long haired men through history would agree, but nevertheless constructed as such by society) specifically because they are women's clothes rather than men's clothes, and the fact that they are woman's rather than men's is significant to him?

There will be men who wear womens clothes because they are womens clothes for sure. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. Here's why: the man in question may love women dearly and love their beautiful clothes. Should he be condemed for wanting the same for himself?
Then the men who feels sexual in womens clothes. It isn't necessarily a bad thing in a healthy loving relationship.
There are bad people out there but we should not let their actions shape our lives. Be safe but don"t let it get to you and don't condem everyone on the actions of one.

It's been nice talking to you ladies but it's probably time for me to go. I'm a married man with a wife of 20 years and three children. I do my best to love and care for my family. I also have a skirt collection now over numbering over 50. My wife wears some of my skirts and my daughter had one off me practically before it hit the mat. I dont have any dresses as such, my shoulders are too broad. I wear my skirts with shoes and socks and a shirt or tee shirt. I feel very lucky that my family accepts me for who I am without judgement.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/08/2025 00:46

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 23:51

There is meaning attached to everything we do.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are suggesting that a male wearer of a skirt is getting gratification.

That's an argument which evokes emotion and fear. There are horrible people out there, male and female. I don't think you have to worry about a man in a skirt (he's got guts). Predators mostly likely dress plainly, wearing a skirt is far to conspicuous.

(Duplicated post)

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/08/2025 00:46

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 23:51

There is meaning attached to everything we do.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are suggesting that a male wearer of a skirt is getting gratification.

That's an argument which evokes emotion and fear. There are horrible people out there, male and female. I don't think you have to worry about a man in a skirt (he's got guts). Predators mostly likely dress plainly, wearing a skirt is far to conspicuous.

I don't "worry" about men in skirts any more than any other man.

I don't worry about men who are respectful of women as equal human beings and respectful of our boundaries, but I "worry" about men who exhibit sexist and entitled behaviour around women, and I "worry" about men (and women) who think it is character traits (often including clothing choices) that make people "men" or "women" rather than just the simple fact of ones sex because that's going right back to old fashioned sexism that I thought we were well past by now.

And that applies whatever those men (or women) happen to be wearing.

But since you want to talk about specifically about clothes:

Clothes are just cloths, but they are worn by people, and as you point out people create meanings.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that no man ever wears a skirt or other female coded clothes for sexual reasons.

Obviously I would not suggest that every man who puts on a skirt does so for sexual reasons, but I would not suggest that no men do either.

After all, there's a lot of people in the world. There are people who believe themselves in love with buildings. There are people who think they can talk to the dead. There are people who believe, truly, honestly believe, they are in a reciprocal relationship with a celebrity that have never met in person and send them passionate letters and gifts.

Throughout human history, society after society has constructed all sorts of meanings around clothes. In the case of female-coded clothes, those meanings are often sexual not because the cloth is inherently sexual but because society has coded the female body as a symbol for (ironically) male sexuality and male sexual reactions, and so things associated with the female body become sexualised as well.

So doesn't it seem unlikely to you that there would be no men with fetishes attached to female-coded clothes?

Do you honestly believe, in a world where it's a common joke that anything you can think of it someone somewhere's fetish, not one single man in the world ever puts on female-coded clothes (not that clothes or styles are intrinsically male or female, as many robe-wearing long haired men through history would agree, but nevertheless constructed as such by society) because they give him a sexual frisson?

And in fact, sexual motives aside, do you honestly believe, given how gendered our culture has been, not one single man in the world puts on female-coded clothes (not that clothes or styles are intrinsically male or female, as many robe-wearing long haired men through history would agree, but nevertheless constructed as such by society) specifically because they are women's clothes rather than men's clothes, and the fact that they are woman's rather than men's is significant to him?

And if you do believe there are no such men in the world, how do you explain the men who openly say they do do these things? Are they lying?

Chersfrozenface · 12/08/2025 00:22

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 23:51

There is meaning attached to everything we do.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are suggesting that a male wearer of a skirt is getting gratification.

That's an argument which evokes emotion and fear. There are horrible people out there, male and female. I don't think you have to worry about a man in a skirt (he's got guts). Predators mostly likely dress plainly, wearing a skirt is far to conspicuous.

Well, there's this one.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/london-north/news/man-sentenced-after-sexually-assaulting-women-streets-late-night

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/08/2025 00:02

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 23:51

There is meaning attached to everything we do.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are suggesting that a male wearer of a skirt is getting gratification.

That's an argument which evokes emotion and fear. There are horrible people out there, male and female. I don't think you have to worry about a man in a skirt (he's got guts). Predators mostly likely dress plainly, wearing a skirt is far to conspicuous.

I’m going to guess that we are in agreement that men in general don’t have breasts and therefore have no need to wear a bra. What’s your feeling about men who wear bras? Or wigs as one of the previous posters on this thread who was so desperate to talk to women here about how his genitals feel in a skirt does?

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 23:51

There is meaning attached to everything we do.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are suggesting that a male wearer of a skirt is getting gratification.

That's an argument which evokes emotion and fear. There are horrible people out there, male and female. I don't think you have to worry about a man in a skirt (he's got guts). Predators mostly likely dress plainly, wearing a skirt is far to conspicuous.

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 23:36

unwashedanddazed · 11/08/2025 23:09

Try reading the first two sentences again. If you properly understand them, then you'll realise mine was a reasoned response.

I apologise, let's read your first two sentences again.
"Men commenting here are just scolding women cause we've got choices, or getting off on telling us about their 'nether regions'."
You should accompany that by blowing a raspberry.
And you wonder why we ignore the posts.
No, I wonder why they don't ignore your posts.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 11/08/2025 23:21

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 22:54

As long as we are in agreement that clothes are just clothes, then we are in agreement. If anyone male or female attaches meaning to the clothes, then they not the wearer need to take a serious look at themselves and their motives, not the wearer.

Yes definitely.

But here's a question - what if it is the wearer who is attaching the meaning to the clothes?

Personally I agree with you that it's a bit silly that clothes should mean anything more than a cloth around your body, but there's a whole industry built around persuading people that their clothes are more than just a cloth so clearly lots of people do choose their clothes to express something about themselves to other people or to be seen as a certain type of person.

Have you not noticed this?

unwashedanddazed · 11/08/2025 23:09

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 22:47

You know,.male or female. If you stood in front of someone and told them to eff off you might find yourself in a punch up and rightly so. Prehaps you should leave the debate people who can think of a reasoned response.

Try reading the first two sentences again. If you properly understand them, then you'll realise mine was a reasoned response.

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 22:54

FlirtsWithRhinos · 11/08/2025 22:49

I have no idea what you are talking about.

If it's just a cloth, that's all good.

If he thinks it's more than that, if he believes his "women's" clothes remain "women's" clothes even when a man is wearing them and if his enjoyment in wearing those clothes is related to that belief, then he has issues and weird ideas about women and clothes.

Edited

As long as we are in agreement that clothes are just clothes, then we are in agreement. If anyone male or female attaches meaning to the clothes, then they not the wearer need to take a serious look at themselves and their motives, not the wearer.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 11/08/2025 22:49

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 22:35

Clothes are just clothes and yet you say they become something else. Who decides that, you? All sorts of accusations, that by your words he is commiting. It sounds like you are throwing anything you have to hand to stop him being his genuine self. Its only a cloth wrapped around the waist. Let's keep it that way.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

If it's just a cloth, that's all good.

If he thinks it's more than that, if he believes his "women's" clothes remain "women's" clothes even when a man is wearing them and if his enjoyment in wearing those clothes is related to that belief, then he has issues and weird ideas about women and clothes.

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 22:47

unwashedanddazed · 11/08/2025 18:37

Men commenting here are just scolding women cause we've got choices, or getting off on telling us about their 'nether regions'. And you wonder why we ignore the posts.

Well, here's a response. Just fuck off.

You know,.male or female. If you stood in front of someone and told them to eff off you might find yourself in a punch up and rightly so. Prehaps you should leave the debate people who can think of a reasoned response.

Barleymower · 11/08/2025 22:35

FlirtsWithRhinos · 11/08/2025 17:58

Is that not exactly what I'm saying?

Men can wear whatever they like. They are still men. As soon as they put the clothes on they are men's clothes.

The line is the point where the clothes are no longer just worn as clothes but become signifiers for that man of something (that man has) associated with actual womanhood, the clothes becoming for him the expression of his beliefs about how women live, think, feel or dress, and the wearing of them the manifestation of a belief that through adopting the outward cultural symbols of "women" he can somehow also embody, express or possess that (projected) womanhood.

In short: along as a man in dress accepts he is a man and his wearing of said dress has nothing to do with actual women, it's all good. If he thinks it's anything more than that we are not good because he is by definition projecting his own reductive ideas about women onto us and that is not ok.

Clothes are just clothes and yet you say they become something else. Who decides that, you? All sorts of accusations, that by your words he is commiting. It sounds like you are throwing anything you have to hand to stop him being his genuine self. Its only a cloth wrapped around the waist. Let's keep it that way.

JustSomeChap · 11/08/2025 18:41

busybusybusy2015 · 11/08/2025 18:37

Ah, pockets and their absence. Normal apparel for both sexes in Fiji is a kilt-like long skirt. This very attractive garment is called a sulu, for both sexes. I thought you might like to know that a man's sulu is called "sulu with pockets" 🤔

A while ago I bought a pair of jeans from the men's section of a charity shop with a waist size in inches. My wife decided they were women's jeans because of the shape. I realised they were women's jeans because the pockets were half as deep as I'm used to!

unwashedanddazed · 11/08/2025 18:37

Men commenting here are just scolding women cause we've got choices, or getting off on telling us about their 'nether regions'. And you wonder why we ignore the posts.

Well, here's a response. Just fuck off.

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