What does Taylor Swift represent that makes men hate her enough to want to kill her fans?

I’ll come with you.

Hmm. Ok. I did not make the link as often conceive of independence as not relying, or relying very little on partner, family or friends.

@LoremIpsumCici I'm actually quite introverted - I think you have to be, to live contentedly on your own - but I do value my female friends!
I was somewhat circuitously responding to the 'men feel threatened by women being independent' aspect of previous posts, not implying that terrorists are introverts...

I am not sure can generalise by sex. My DH has way more friends than I do that he sees far more often than I do. If he were single, he would be even more sociable. I think it is more that some of us are introverted and others are extroverted. I also do not think an introvert is more likely to be a mass murderer, because they prefer not to have a “rich network” of lots of friends.

@Walkacrossthesand that's very true. I have old work friends, school friends, people I've met through interests. My DP really has little contact with old friends outside Facebook. Maybe women just nurture their friends in a way men don't.

What isn't often talked about, beyond the circles concerned, is the incredible rich network of female friends that older single women often have. Men, not so much, from what I can see - they find another partner pretty quickly. Maybe the 2 things are related...

What is interesting that her concerts aren't female-only events, men can freely attend if they wish to do so, so it's different to the single-sex events where there are some men who resent being unable to attend something that they had no intention of attending due to their sex.

But it really is just a case of the question "where would a lot of girls and young women be" and a Taylor Swift concert is an obvious answer.

This with big clanging bells on

I think people are analysing it too much. We don't need to analyse her song lyrics, her business mind etc. It's very simple.

Her events are where lots of girls and young women are going to be, these are the types that young men hold resentment against. (I don't hear of planned terror attacks against WI events for example).

When you see footage of the fans attending her concerts I see very little men there (usually the fathers who've been dragged along and a few gay men), just a lot of young women and girls.

I've been doing that for years. Started consciously training myself as a teenager to look em dead in the eye and keep walking in a straight line. You're right, they all move at the last minute with a look of absolute astonishment on their faces. But they do move. I always leave plenty of room for them so I'm not being unreasonable, just not prepared to walk in the gutter to make way for their royal highnesses.

I've had a lot of abuse from these men over the years but I'm just not going to live in fear of them. Also have been frequently accused of being "rude" by so many female friends because I won't put up with male harassment, which is very disappointing. Why should I sit in a pub smiling sweetly listening to some sleaze trying to take up my time with his "chat up lines "? We don't owe these idiots our time!

My DM is a famously assertive broad who never suffered fools. I learnt from the best!

This was a particular kind of extremism added on top

It is quite funny though that he had to wheel out his wife to defend him and row back on his misogynistic slurs explain what he really meant. That must have hurt his male pride.

There are some brilliant commentators on YouTube picking this stuff apart. I particularly like Luke Beasley.

Rich and successful in that order - JKR is similar

These sexist, patriarchal attitudes have always existed regarding women superstars. But the rise of internet MRA culture and influencers has taken the hate to a new level. They find it much easier to recruit boys and young men and stage concerted attacks. Classic radicalisation strategies.

I agree

For men who have been radicalised Taylor Swift/Arianna Grande and their fans represent everything that goes against how they see women should be.
There are men who believe women are a 'possession' who should be made to cover their heads, faces and bodies, walk 3 paces behind their husbands, not be educated, speak when they are spoken to and live to serve. For these men when they see Taylor Swift and her followers it is the exact opposite of everything they believe a woman should be.
Heartbreakingly, as recent events have shown, there are some men who feel so strongly about it they feel the need to eradicate it by taking the lives of innocent children. It is impossible for any rationale, normal, sane person to make sense of the situation or understand what motivates these perpetrators.

Because men are effectively redundant and they know it

It just illustrates that living well is absolutely the best revenge, especially against woman hating losers. They can't stand knowing that women have more going for them than they do. They blame women for their failures in life because they are abject weaklings.

I do this a lot, because I live in a very crowded city centre and, as a very small woman, I refuse to move out if the way for anyone except those who genuinely need me to (e.g. the elderly, disabled, people with small children).

I never veer aside at the last moment. About 99% of the time men move aside for me; very occasionally we brush or hit arms or bags as they notice and move too late.

Exactly. I’m not into cats but my thing is books.

I’d rather be surrounded by books than be in a deeply toxic or even unsatisfying relationship, and cleaning up after some man who sees me only as his servant.

I’m glad people, mainly women, are pushing back against societal norms which tell us any partner is better than no partner.

Alone with a cat is not as bad as being attached to an inadequate INCEL type.9

Also note that many religious groupings prohibit or discourage marrying ‘out’. Is it to keep the faith alive or assure the supply of young women for men of that faith?
@NewTwenty I'd say both, also that keeping men placated/occupied with compliant women is a way of distracting them from thier own subjugation to those who have power over them.
Or to put it another way men accept being ruled over because they are compensated by having a woman, home & family that they can dominate. Or at least they could, in theory . . . sometime back in the day.

It does seem to me that in the prevailing climate, thing are actually going into reverse, and the not inconsiderable gains that women have made in the last few decades is now threatened. And SM must take much of the blame. the increasing disconnection with the real world ("meatspace", anyone? 🙄) that not just young people, but increasingly, all of us, are experiencing leaves us vulnerable. Developing critical thinking in a 140 word format (or whatever) is much more difficult.

As quite a number of posters have said - some men cannot stand it that young, and even middle aged women - and even older women, are really successful. Loving life, living the dream, have an amazingly successful career, and are not being told to do by any man or being ruled by any man.

They are particularly vitriolic towards them if they are childfree/childless. They think women exist to serve men and bear children. Yep even in 2024 a large amount of men think like this, and even the 'good ones' - the men who we think are not like this, have a degree of misogynism in them. Yep, even our Nigels!

I know a number of young 20-something, and 30-something women who are quite successful youtubers and instagrammers, with 50,000 to 200,000 subscribers - and some of them engage in activities that are typically 'male based' (in the minds of some people.) They get dozens of comments weekly, from men (from their grubby little basements) about how they shouldn't be doing this and shouldn't be doing that, and they should 'leave it to the men.'

They go from saying they are crap at it, and need to get back in the kitchen, to calling them slags and bitches, and even threatening to kill them. Absolutely horrific but yes, it's incels, it's misogynists, it's men that really hate women, and really cannot stand young beautiful successful women who are doing really well in the world - and are not being dominated by any man.

Even many religions prefer to keep women down (and that's most religions including the Western ones.) But also, many men who are not religious can't stand successful women either. I've known many a couple split up because the woman has become more successful in her career than the man. It's really, really, very sad.

And as for all these multiple millions of girls and women enjoying themselves at the Taylor Swift concerts?! Well! That just won't do! Women enjoying themselves without men (and some probably didn't even get permission from a man to go,) is unacceptable! (To the incels!)

Sexism has been rife for many years and was horrific in the workplace when I started work in the 1980s. It's no better now. 2024, and some men still see women as nothing more than a servant to men. And any that don't fall into line don't half pay the price. Utterly depressing.