Pride in primary school

I'm bisexual. I've had same-sex relationships. I used to go to Pride events and used to be my firm's LGBT staff network representative (back in 2014).

Not any more.

I avoid anything Pride-related like the plague. Pride is no longer about sexuality, but instead seems to focus on kink, "queer" culture and trans-activism.

I was lonely at school. I had crushes on women from a very young age. I was the target of homophobic bullying for years at secondary school. It would have been great if there was some acceptance of gay people. But that is not what Pride is about anymore.

I am perfectly happy for DD to be told that people can have two mummies or daddies. That men can marry men and women can marry women. DD's godfather is gay. But I am not having her exposed to queer theory, trans ideology or expressions like "love is love" (which is used by the MAP lobby). Nor, given the great strides we've made in society, and the acceptance of same-sex relationships, do I think that Pride is still necessary. No other minority has a month dedicated to it, with flags, rainbow sandwiches and corporate logos changing colour.

@Echobelly
I don't know why I have to say this, but homosexuality is not more 'sexual' than heterosexuality.
I don't know if you do need to say it do you? That doesn't seem to be the sentiment being expressed here.

@Askingforafriend24 go and look at the resources on Safe Schools Alliance.
Pride nowadays is all about the T and you only have to look at the work of many of the original gay and lesbian activists to see that they are also distancing themselves from it for that reason.

I wouldn't be happy particularly post Cass and the general trend towards removing this ideology from schools (in England) so would be suspecting there is a member of staff with skin in the game here (trans themselves/ child/partner).
You may find that you arent the only parent feeling the same and if you dont feel brave enough to speak out then vote with your feet and keep your child off school and certainly dont give up any of your free time to support the fair and attend the “education” event.
This has been picked up on Twitter, take a look.

https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1804053527628595511?s=46&t=2rRFOIbLE0AM9N5y98zmkw

YANBU, this stuff is such utter bullshit and so pervasive and it's so hard to challenge it.

This. Also pride is a political lobbying organisation. It was founded as such and it is still - most recently with promotion of all thing TQ+ at the expense of lesbians, many of whom feel excluded. Just because it's been insanely successful at getting businesses to virtue signal (I personally think because having rainbow marketing is cheaper than doing proper inclusivity and installing disabled ramps etc) doesn't mean it's not political any more.

It's fine for primary schools to talk about same sex marriages, families with same sex parents and in my experience they do. Plus children see their friends having normal, boring parents who just happen to be same sex - that's probably far more effective at stopping homophobia than any fete.

It's not ok and breaches the rules that require schools to be politically impartial to have a day aligned to one political movement. What next - a just stop oil fete? Where does it end and who gets to decide which political lobby group messages will indoctrinate the children?

If pride was about teaching kids that it's oké to love whomever you want and perhaps a bit of history about how that used to be illegal and that gay and lesbian people were often persecuted by the governent or killed/attacked by members of the general public, it would be an important thing for schools to teach the kids.

This is in a similar vain to teaching children about the attrocitiets of the WW2.

However, Pride is no longer about these things. It's now only about commercialization and the mainstreaming of fetishes and sexuality that is not yet appropriate for certain ages.

The original message and struggle of Pride have been lost. In a similar vein, when you ask people who chant "from the river to the sea...." and you ask them which river and sea they are refering to, they often can't answer. It's bandwagon and the original message has been lost and most don't care. They think they have the moral high ground and that is all that matters to them.

But kids do think about 'this stuff'; many will know a kid with same sex parents.

I don't know why I have to say this, but homosexuality is not more 'sexual' than heterosexuality. We can't have an equitable approach to the LGBTQ+ community until people stop treating gayness like it's 'inappropriate for children'.

There is no course that can stop me being a sarcastic arse sorry.

Primary kids don't need pride. They're already taught that families come in different configurations in primary from a very young age, many will have that message reinforced by their parents, and as you say many will have first hand experience of it.

And the kids who don't get an inclusive message at home or grow up in a homophobic environment are unlikely to get taken to a weekend pride event.

I have a cousin in his 70s who is gay and has never ever said anything about his sexuality or a partner to any member of his family. There is a terrible incident of self harmin his past that was in no way positive but after it happened, he was no longer expected to 'settle down' in his home town/family business, and he was actually freer. I am glad we live in a society where Pride is a time that presents positive images of gay people and positive ideas for children about the gay people in their families. This has got to prevent suffering and improve all our lives.

On a very minor level, I've realised in my 50s that I am bisexual. I never previously considered it. I've never suffered at all but nonetheless it is better that I know about it, and if I do have a relationship with a woman, I would like ds to understand that it's OK.

I have two cousins who have transitioned. Tbh I suppose my personal view would be that as time goes on, less homophobia and more acceptance of people loving their own sex and living lives meaningful to them will mean fewer feel the need to transition medically. But I keep that one to myself because only time will tell.

I think if you really want children who have gay people in their lives (pretty much all of them) to have LESS understanding and acceptance, you are going in the wrong direction.

The existence of adult gay/lesbian couples/parents can and should be covered in primary school in a very matter of fact way, without any need to “celebrate”. It should just be presented as a normal part of society because it is a normal part of society.

the sexuality of young children should NOT be covered because it is totally inappropriate until children are intellectually and emotionally mature enough to begin to understand themselves in that way.

likewise the trans issue is complex and confusing for adults to negotiate and comprehend, not something young children are equipped to begin to understand.
it really must be separated out from gay/lesbian, there really is only a small amount of common ground (if any) between the two. It’s conflates two separate experiences and different sets of challenges. It is impossible to address those experiences/challenges as one homogenous issue, they just aren’t the same. Some people might see themselves as both gay and trans, in the same way that some people are both gay and disabled. It doesn’t mean that you can bundle it all together because doing that diminishes those very different experiences. There is no way that children can understand that complexity.

This is a very good point.
If it were me I'd ask, in the spirit of innocent curiosity, when the school would be having a diversity and inclusion event around people with disabilities, or people of different ages.
And in the meantime I wouldn't waste my and my child's Saturday morning going to an event that sounds like overkill considering 'some people have two mummies' etc is presumably covered and/or modelled by the curriculum and by general school culture.

JFC

Feel free to pull your child from school and keep them home to indoctrinate them in your bigotry but fortunately you have no power to stop schools teaching them that the world is broader than your horizons

I wouldn’t say ‘lots’ of kids have same sex parents or gay relatives’. ‘Some’ or ‘a few’ but not ‘lots’.

I would say more emphasis should be put on tackling bullying in general, not just in relation to this one factor.

In terms of sports day, I’ve always thought it was best practice to mix boys and girls before puberty because boys don’t have an advantage until that point. Girls and boys are equally fast or strong until testosterone kicks in properly.

Statistics regarding sporting records from USA schools shows a considerable disparity between boys and girls from the age of 7 onwards. There are outliers of course but overall boys perform better than girls even before puberty.

Ok, so all those who think Pride in primary schools is a great idea, please can you answer these questions below? Imagine you’re talking to a curious six-year-old. You’re happy that your child asks questions and are keen to answer in a way that is truthful, makes sense to him / her and aligns with values that you’re keen to promote to your growing child (I’m leaving LGB out of my questions because I think it’s the other letters that the Pride flag represents that people are concerned about):

1. What’s Pride?
2. Why do we do Pride at school?
3. What does T stand for?
4. What does Q stand for?
5. What do I and A stand for, and what about all the pluses?
6. What are all the colours ? What is the circle on the flag? And the black and brown stripes?

Really interested to hear your answers. I’m six and very curious so be ready for lots more questions if what you say doesn’t make sense.

As isaid (excluding the typo) tolerance prevents bullying. Perhaps you should attend?.

A lot of the original gay activists (those actually there at the Stonewall riot etc) are distancing themselves from Pride now.

The census showed that 5% of the population are same-sex attracted, so the reality of it is that Pride is irrelevant to the vast majority of children.

Being bisexual myself (and not realising until about the age of 14), not sure how helpful Pride is at primary school age, and actually could be damaging. I've heard schools go around and ask children what sexual orientation they are and that sort of questioning and forced grouping (ostracisation in the 2000s) terrified me. My sexual orientation does not define me!

And I feel that Pride promotes negative stereotypes, and will probably make questioning children feel worse and more confused.

Who knows if Pride was promoted when I was at primary school? I may have ended up on here detailing my detransition.

Education like this perhaps? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50511063.amp

I think most people have no issue with celebrating LGB. It's the T that's the issue.

Suggesting to very young children that it's possible to change sex or that they might be born in the "wrong" body or that they must conform to regressive gender stereotypes otherwise they're actually the opposite sex inside - all of this is deeply harmful and yet seems to be the focus of Pride/LGBT these days. A lot of my friends who are LGB no longer have any involvement in Pride events as they associate them with gender ideology and as homophobic.

Mums 2 days gay brothers.
I think we can all agree with this wise sentence.

Lots of those kids have 2. Mums 2 days gay brothers. If it prevents bulling and promotes understanding then great and part of education

This reads as quite sinister. People who disagree with you don't need "educating". They're allowed freedom of thought and expression.

I’m sure you are overthinking this in terms of sex education. Pride for children that age is surely just about understanding we love who we love and some families have two mums or two dads.

If it helps, I had a friend in school with two mums and I didn’t once think about their sex life. Just like I never thought about what happened between other parents.

Sounds like the education seminar will help you.

No chance I’m voting for him.