Testosterone gives transmen incontinence, bladder & bowel problems

I agree with this, I'd imagine that the majority of parents who go along with this are simply enamoured of being in the Tribe of Righteous People With The Bundle Of Good Beliefs, and it's a bonus if their child is one of the special ones for Extra Righteousness.

I think people are conflated things here - the majority (70-90%) of those referred to the Tavistock (who, as a result of their trans identification, are GNC) have been shown to be LGB.

However, of the general population, it does not follow that GNC people are LGB, although as a result of this conflation, many are now assumed to be so when before they were just acknowledged to be tomboys/effeminate boys. Add to this that, although there is probably quite a high level of GNC-ity amongst L or G people vis a vis the straight population, it is still NOT a key indicator being L/G.

Frankly, the GI movement has set the LGB movement back decades. Many of the blokes that I know to be gay, you’d never really know other than their eyes don’t track the women when they’re in the pub…

And yet women (who don't identify as men) have to be so bloody careful about what we put into our bodies when we're pregnant. Case in point, I need antihistamines, firstly because I was getting bitten by midges and coming out in huge lumps, secondly because I get horrendous hayfever and it's bad enough even with antihistamines. Couldn't get a straight answer from the pharmacists and HCPs I asked. Looked it up and the NHS website says loratadine is safe in pregnancy, which is what I was taking last year and had some left over, so I've been taking that.

I didn't know I was pregnant until I realised my period was nearly two months late. I spoke to a GP who seemed to think that because I'd been drinking before this point I was better off having an abortion. 😡 The way he spoke to me seemed to indicate he thought I'm some sort of party animal, because then he asked about drugs. Don't think he was expecting me to confess to having cold and flu drinks and cough syrup! (I'd been ill and had a day off sick, which was when I twigged that I might be pregnant.)

SaltPorridge I know what you mean. I was a tomboy, have had short hair all my life, people have assumed I was a boy (when a child) and then a lesbian, all my life. I'm straight (it would be a lot easier if I was a lesbian tbh, this is just how I want to be and look, and I'm more attractive to lesbians than to men... it's amazing I managed to pull a man and have kids tbh).

These days I get asked if I'm non-binary too.

But it is true that gender non-confirming is correlated with being homosexual. You mentioned using certain hair, jewellery to "signal" being female and straight. And lots of gay people have their "signals" too, which tend to be gender non-conforming. That's part of it.

But I've known quite a few people who grew up to be gay and were clearly GNC from a very young age. It also definitely seemed to be a thing at the Tavistock.

I agree with you about sports and being muscular as well. No girl should have to feel put off that.

It always bothers me a great deal to read comments suggesting that most gender non-conforming adolescents are homosexual.
Some of us just can't conform to stereotypes, some choose not to.

As a teenager, I looked very masculine and was sometimes mistaken for a boy, mostly by young children and people with poor eyesight. Teenage boys, however, were anxious to know if I was a lesbian. As I got older I made a point of signalling I was female using long hair and earrings, but I increasingly got asked if I was a lesbian. My very muscular body was the main thing they noticed, and it was annoying having to wear long sleeves to avoid misunderstandings. I can't help having muscled appearance - I was born like that - but for young women anxious about strength training in case it makes them look butch, that is actually a health issue.

Just watched this 45 minute video (when I was supposed to be doing something else). Utterly riveting and very informative. Elaine Millar speaks in such a measured neutral tone, and lays out the devastating bladder/gynae and pelvic floor failure type side effects of oestrogen depletion on females taking testosterone.

She’s very annoyed at the lack of information and lack of research on this topic available to anyone female considering testosterone. The detrans host was able to tell Elaine of another issue she suffered whilst on testosterone (tampons falling out) Elaine hadn’t heard of.

I hope lots of females considering transition watch this - if it makes even one stop and think it’s worth it.

And the doctors and the TV producers who thought his pain and abuse was ‘entertainment’. There desperately needs to be a tsunami of law suits.

Only I fear that many of the young people swept up in the trans craziness are too vulnerable, for a variety of reasons, to be rightly angered and take action against what’s been done to them.

I agree TicklishLemur and wasn’t meaning to disagree with you - more just pondering that this is so widespread as to not just be munchausen’s. The word “transhausen’s” has been coined but I don’t think it’s just severe mental illness. Because parents are being told being trans is normal, healthy and happy and that their child is right about whatever “gender identity” they declare, anyone who does want attention or coolness via their child will just get that as a bonus and for them it won’t be on a par with actively harming them. That’s one of the many awful things about it all.

But actively trying to push transing on children for attention does seem to be happening as well.

One of the things that I found/find difficult about my ex is that he will boast about the DC and try to bask in reflected glory if they do anything he considers cool. He’s a fully signed up he/him and I know if either DC made a peep about gender he’d be all over it, encouraging it and broadcasting it to the world. He means well though. It’s frightening how the ideology has the power to blind people/parents to such obviously disastrous harms.

I completely agree with you there. I only mentioned those two possibilities because they are at the other extreme end of the spectrum and I do think there is evidence of them occurring in some cases.

Sometimes that's healthy and supportive, sometimes it's a bit more extreme and more about meeting a need in the parent. We had indigo children and so on. It doesn't have to be full munchausen's for some parents to get something from that "my child is special" phenomenon.

Yes, @MrsWhattery I think what you say is more common than we like to admit. I see it in my extended family with this issue.

However, clearly there are some who have sinister motivations - attention seeking or Munchausen by proxy, or the desire for a child to remain in a prepubescent state for an extended period (which is not beyond imagination for the fathers convicted of sexual offences as reported above.)

It doesn't even have to be this extreme, I don't think. Just as young people have always had identity groups like being an alternative or a goth etc, parents sometimes form tribes or gain a sense of belonging, identity etc (to varying degrees) through their child or from other parents with that kind of child - whether it's kids who do a sport, dance, have a particular SEN or disability, do pageants, etc. Sometimes that's healthy and supportive, sometimes it's a bit more extreme and more about meeting a need in the parent. We had indigo children and so on. It doesn't have to be full munchausen's for some parents to get something from that "my child is special" phenomenon. And especially so in the age of social media when boasting about your child on FB etc is pretty normal in some circles.

I'm not defending it, it's just that full-blown munchausen's is quite rare but I think the perceived "coolness" of having a trans child is more common. It's happening with a lot of celebs too.

Agreed, I have mixed feelings on the parents. Some have had the living daylights frightened out of them by being told their children will take their own life if they do not affirm them. Others have trusted that medical professionals will be responsible and provide proper care to their child. However, clearly there are some who have sinister motivations - attention seeking or Munchausen by proxy, or the desire for a child to remain in a prepubescent state for an extended period (which is not beyond imagination for the fathers convicted of sexual offences as reported above.)

Abuse alone is enough to shatter innocence and ruin a childhood. I can’t imagine having that compounded by drugs and surgeries that cause infertility, incontinence and physical pain alongside destroying sexual function and sensation. All justified to achieve an aim that will never actually be possible.

It's as if transgenderism gave these men the perfect excuse to legitimise the sexualisation of children. Putting ideas into very young children's heads. I don't doubt some parents went along in the mistaken belief of listening to their children but there are others that you can't help but question whether they did it for their own gratification. Either way children have been harmed and childhoods ruined that they will never get back. Even sadder is the outcomes when they reach adulthood and fully understand what was done to them.

You’re right about not everything necessarily being wrong simply because of the unethical behaviour of the proponent. But I think gender ideology and the treatment of children who do not ‘fit’ their sex (whether through behaviour, or acquired / congenital genital abnormalities) is terribly tarnished by sexual abuse and grooming.

Never forget that John Money invented the terms 'gender role' and 'sexual orientation' (possibly also transsexual) and introduced the word 'paraphilia' for what would formerly have been known by a more judgemental term.

There's always a debate about whether art is 'contaminated' if the artist committed evil acts - thinking Eric Gill for example. It seems to me that Money did evil things and that his capacity to do them does raise doubts about his 'respectability' as an authority on human behavior. He is the founding father of everything that is now written about gender - he'd be very proud of how his ideas have been developed.

I’ve been regularly amazed at how socially incompetent so called therapists can be. Surely the most basic requirement is empathy and interpersonal skills?

I do think there are exceptions though. I had a wonderful therapist assigned to me as a child after suffering abuse. She was worth her weight in gold. Obviously discussions had to be had that related to the abuse and how and when others should be allowed to see or touch my privates. I do think it is possible to have such conversations with children in a way that is age appropriate and does not inflict further trauma and abuse on them.

Absolutely. I think there has been a lot of unethical and abusive behaviour from therapists over the years and especially with vulnerable children.

I’ll never forget the case of David Reimer. A circumcision went horribly wrong and his penis was burnt beyond repair. He was taken to John Money, a prominent gender ideologist who advised he be raised as a girl. He was then castrated and had a fake vulva installed.

To instill a female identity in him Money would make him and his twin brother rehearse sexual acts. David would be made to kneel on all fours whilst his brother was made to thrust against his buttocks, and to lie on his back with his legs open whilst his brother lay on top. During both these activities he would take photographs of the boys. He also made both children inspect one another’s genitals. Any distress or resistance was met with anger and abuse as described by David:

He told me to take my clothes off, and I just did not do it. I just stood there. And he screamed, 'Now!' Louder than that. I thought he was going to give me a whupping. So I took my clothes off and stood there shaking.

David always saw himself as a boy, but was still constantly pressured to undergo surgery to create an ‘vagina’ as well as being drugged with oestrogen. He became suicidal at the age of 13 and said that he would commit suicide if forced to go back. He later had to undergo mastectomy and phalloplasty, though we know how inadequate such surgeries can be.

Both children were extremely disturbed as a result of their abuse and in the end David’s brother died from an overdose of antidepressants. This was shortly followed by David dying from a self inflicted gunshot wound at the age of 38. All the terrible consequences were covered up and Money reported it as a successful experiment. He is one of the founding fathers of transgenderism. As such, although horrified to see the AMA OP’s reports, I’m not surprised to see that gender questioning children (not that David was one) are still being groomed and sexually abused by so called therapists.

mrshoho · Yesterday 19:09

With JJ in one of the clips of a tv show, the mother said at 2 years old he asked if the fairy was going to give him a vagina or something along those lines. I'm sorry but at 2 years old?

Yes, I'm also extremely sceptical that he said something like that at such a young age. I've never watched any of it, I'm not keen on car crash TV. From what people have posted, it's a crime, an absolute tragedy what they did to him.

I just hope that one day, it's recognised and they get what they deserve.

My older sister told our Dad that the flood lights round castles were there to blind the castle's attackers! I was pea green with envy because I hadn't thought of it first (it was kind of genius imo for a young kid to think of). My then 2 yo scornfully telling us off for thinking sheep ate grass, they eat clouds as any fule knos, I mean just look at them!

If you tell a child they can change sex they may believe you because they are children! I think Glinner (and probably others) have said something like that. MN will be full of threads of the funny, scary, batshit and wonderful nonsense that children say. Just in this one instance when it intersects with an adult movement, fueled by adult desires and trauma, and sense goes out the window.

Kids make a lot of leaps because they don't know anything.

I remember a friend of my parents scolding her little boy, aged about 3, for willy-twanging and saying 'Stop that or you'll pull it right off' - ah, old-style parenting - and he gazed at her and said solemnly, 'Is that what happened to (his friend) Alison's?'

I had a friend in university who was non-white. He and his younger brother (who was the darker skinned of the two) had been adopted as toddlers by a white family. One day his brother at dinner asked when they would become white like the parents and older siblings. He had concluded that people were born dark and over time lost their pigmentation.

I remember thinking as a child that when women got old, their hair turned short and curly. Just like it turned grey, or men became bald.

Kids make a lot of leaps because they don't know anything.

I have pretty much lost all respect for "therapy". As far as I am concerned it seems as likely to cause problems as solve them. The fact that the standard is to basically cut parents out of therapy for kids to me is deeply wrong and unsafe.

I know a therapist who was working in children's gender care, she was really well respected as a child therapist. We were in a book group together. She was a kind person. But I can't think of anyone I've met as unable to understand other people, her comments about what went on in the novels were at times bizarre, and she couldn't deal with other people who had different political opinions. She was also extremely fearful of having the wrong opinions herself. In short, a mess.

I haven't overall been very impressed with many other therapists I've met. I just have little confidence they are likely to be helpful rather than harmful.

Astonishing and awful report.

Things can it seems easily go very awry in 'therapy'.

Children referred to Gids were ten times more likely than the national average to have a registered sex offender as a parent

A stark, and staggering statistic. Given that most SOs aren't even ever discovered/charged, too.

It makes me wonder whether being referred to Gids isn't a flag for a safeguarding issue in itself.

the mother said at 2 years old he asked if the fairy was going to give him a vagina or something along those lines.

I agree we don’t know if this is actually true. But if it was, I can see how a very young child could be asking a question like that innocently (if they’ve learned a word for it).

if/when small children realise that the opposite sex has different genitals from them, they may say why don’t I have that, or will I get that. Perfectly reasonable question to which the sensible answer would be to explain boys and girls have different parts which can be used for making babies when they grow up, and you’re not going to grow the other kind of part but you’re fine and perfect as you are.

Or maybe a gender nonconforming child, such as a boy who like toys and clothes that he’s told are “for girls”, might think maybe that means he is a girl and wonders if he will get girl genitals too. It’s a reasonable confusion at that age and again the answer should be no that won’t happen, you’re a boy and that’s great. And ideally of course also let him play and dress up how he likes without making a big deal out if it.