Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Libraries promoting body mutilation as “joy” in Norfolk

314 replies

CarobBean72 · 12/04/2024 09:28

Anyone here from Norfolk?

Norwich Millennium Library has a display of “Trans Joy”, apparently aimed at children & young people, which IMHO promotes body mutilation & self harm of women & girls & glorifies drug use. In the wake of the Cass Report it’s incredibly irresponsible.

It includes images of hypodermic needles for injecting testosterone, a packer & mastectomy scars, with the slogan “Self-made men play God right”.

Most disturbing is a small figurine of a woman’s lower half, cut off at waist & knees, bearing what appears to be a hysterectomy scar & what is either a pseudo-phallus ( an appendage made from a flap of tissue removed from the woman’s arm or thigh, rolled up and sewn to the groin to mimic a penis ) or a hypertrophied clitoris, one of the often painful effects of testosterone on the female body.

The display is accessible to children as the cabinets stand only a couple of feet high, designed for a child’s eye line and it’s placed next to the 8-14 book section. The cases are by the entrance - not noticeable when you go in but inescapable when you leave.

I can’t believe someone okayed this. If it was promoting anorexia or cutting or glorifying steroid abuse to children and teenagers, we’d all see it for what it is. Instead, it’s promoting self-mutilation under the banner of “Trans Joy”.

It’s especially irresponsible in the week the Cass Review revealed how poor the evidence base for so-called “gender affirming care” is and how little followup there has been to assess regret and de-transition rates.

Ive been trying to find a contact for the head of Norfolk Library Services - it’s a woman called Kerry Murray, who is also the Safeguarding Lead! But I can’t find any email listing for her.

Any suggestions?

Sharing images with trepidation: it’s a horror show!

Post edited by MNHQ

Libraries promoting body mutilation as “joy” in Norfolk
Libraries promoting body mutilation as “joy” in Norfolk
Libraries promoting body mutilation as “joy” in Norfolk
OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MagicKittens · 29/04/2024 13:31

OligoN · 29/04/2024 12:39

Me three… and that time Paula and I outed ourselves as “watcher of WW2 documentaries” definitely men.

But how often did you think about the Romans?

Ingenieur · 29/04/2024 13:29

Trans healthcare isn't considered mutilation

Isn't considered mutilation by who exactly? Because in the absence of evidence that it works as a medical treatment, and when people can decide exactly what medical condition is being treated, then it most certainly is mutilation.

BeHappyHedgehog · 29/04/2024 13:23

borntobequiet · 29/04/2024 07:38

My point still stands

Its hard to gauge your point, but if it is one of:

Bodily self mutilation is something to be normalised, celebrated and promoted

or

Women on Mumsnet are silly airheads who don’t understand “art”

or

Women on Mumsnet don’t love and support their children adequately

Then it never stood at all.

First of all, I do not promote body mutilation. As mentioned in one of my previous comments, trans healthcare isn't considered mutilation & if you're referring to the healed self harm scars, they signify overcoming that dark place of self hate. I wish self harm didn't happen but we can't deny that it does & people's healing & showing that life doesn't end at that point is the point of that piece.

Second of all, please point me to where I used such offensive language to describe you guys. I came here to have a discussion & learn more from the constructive replies. I also never described people on this forum as women as I'm aware that not only women use this forum, in fact I never put any direct phrasing aimed at all the people on this forum at all. The only time I spoke directly to people is in replies & I have tried my best to use neutral terms when speaking directly to them

Beowulfa · 29/04/2024 13:22

DialSquare · 29/04/2024 12:00

Yesterday I was wearing tracksuit bottoms and a T-shirt whilst watching football most of the day. Was I living as a man?

Oh, I know this one. If you live in the USA and like football you're a woman, if in Mexico you're a man. So if you sit straddling Trump's border wall with a leg each side you're intersex.

Murica · 29/04/2024 13:16

Slothtoes · 29/04/2024 13:10

This display of graphic medically altered sexual organs and scars etc and surgery artefacts is to any sensible adult, wildly inappropriate for kids.

If the ‘trans joy’ promoters think kids and adults should all see the same things, then shouldn’t they be campaigning for the removal of the children’s (and adults) book sections completely? Who needs age restrictions on readers if age restrictions are so meaningless

No, no. It's not aimed at kids. So they definitely won't look.

Ingenieur · 29/04/2024 13:14

BeHappyHedgehog · 29/04/2024 13:10

Thank you for clarifying. I was using it how it's described in the Oxford dictionary, as it's not a derogatory term. How would you prefer for me to describe the majority group of people who feel affirmed with sex assigned to them at birth? Someone mentioned feminist, but I feel that if I used that I'd describe the entire global movement which stands for equal rights for all & not necessarily the societal group I mentioned. Do you have any alternative suggestions?

Sex is not "assigned" at birth, it is observed and recorded.

No human can or has ever changed sex.

Ingenieur · 29/04/2024 13:12

@BeHappyHedgehog

Isn't this healthy?

No, affirming something that isn't real is not healthy.

I see you are familiar with body dysmorphia. You should therefore also be aware that a course of treatment wouldn't involve mutilating someone to remove body parts that are causing distress, and that the doctor would be struck off.

Instead people are counselled to accept the reality of their situation and become comfortable with who the actually are, not what they really really really want to be.

CrossPurposes · 29/04/2024 13:12

We have the words. The ones who are different get the adjectives.

Slothtoes · 29/04/2024 13:10

This display of graphic medically altered sexual organs and scars etc and surgery artefacts is to any sensible adult, wildly inappropriate for kids.

If the ‘trans joy’ promoters think kids and adults should all see the same things, then shouldn’t they be campaigning for the removal of the children’s (and adults) book sections completely? Who needs age restrictions on readers if age restrictions are so meaningless

BeHappyHedgehog · 29/04/2024 13:10

grievancegerbil43 · 29/04/2024 07:29

Oh and cisgender is an offensive term which is usually not permitted on these forums. I won't report your post because otherwise this thread will not make sense but please do not use it in future. It is assigning a gender identity to an entire group who do not believe they have one. So stop.

Thank you for clarifying. I was using it how it's described in the Oxford dictionary, as it's not a derogatory term. How would you prefer for me to describe the majority group of people who feel affirmed with sex assigned to them at birth? Someone mentioned feminist, but I feel that if I used that I'd describe the entire global movement which stands for equal rights for all & not necessarily the societal group I mentioned. Do you have any alternative suggestions?

BeHappyHedgehog · 29/04/2024 13:02

grievancegerbil43 · 29/04/2024 07:28

I can tell you exactly how I would react if my child told me they were transgender, suddenly in adolescence. I would not affirm their identity, I would get them neutral, exploratory therapy, I would tell school that they were not to socially transition them behind our backs and make them roll back the changes they had made. And I would be doing this on the advice of mental health professionals. I know this because it's what happened. And four years on, DD is now not using male pronouns, and does not want to have surgery.

This is key, because there is not one uniform 'trans person'. There are some people who have wanted this for all their lives and I want all the best for them. The manly men who come to explain being women to us tend to transition late in life for perhaps different reasons. But teenage girls? They are fleeing from the bin fire that womanhood looks like for them, usually because of some kind of neurodiversity or trauma. Most of them don't even get into the clinical system, and that's good. Because the detransition rate in this group - ROGD if you want a name for it - is between 90 and 95% if they are left alone to just be a teenager. We don't need to affirm them, or medicalise them or encourage them to have surgery. Because these are the ones whose regrets are now all over social media are mostly girls who have transitioned in adolescence. And these are the ones who do not need 'trans joy' (aka fetishistic male sexual arousal) in their libraries.

I agree that adolescent youths can get things wrong about themselves whilst growing up as it's a natural part of self discovery. I can agree for a fact that in my adolescence I have considered many factors that I later realised weren't for me. I feel that many people experience this whilst they're still developing, & giving them the floor to explore helps them answer their questions. Societal support during exploration helps in making your mind up, because when you hear people refer to you how you asked it makes you feel either affirmed or the opposite. Isn't this healthy? I'd say my adolescent years helped me feel affirmed in my gender, sexuality & even physical expression as it is now. Considering that medical transitioning is accessible later in life, societal transitioning for adolescents is an easy way to figure out whether that's what you'd want later on.

I think adolescents should be taken seriously in their discoveries so that they feel accepted either way & know that their value isn't based on whether they're cis or trans. That way they wouldn't feel like they have to be a certain way to fulfil others' expectations of them — I mean there are many adolescents who detransition because of how much they've been invalidated & their close ones seeing them in a negative light.

I just had a quick look at ROGD on Wiki & to my understanding it's a hypothesis which states that people experience gender dysphoria due to peer influence. Are you familiar with the term body dysmorphia? It's something that cisgender people also experience so I imagine if an adolescent felt uncomfortable in their body & wasn't aware of body dysmorphia being a thing, they could think they're experiencing gender dysphoria. This can be easily fixed by educating them on dysmorphia as it's very common & majority of people have experienced it in their lifetimes. I can see that the hypothesis you mentioned isn't scientifically supported & to my understanding the majority of detransitioning is caused by societal disapproval in some way (I have linked a study in my second comment to do with this). Fetishists prey on the transgender community as they do with many others, like sexual orientation or nationality which I personally experienced. Are you implying fetishism of body positivity from members of the public or that trans people are fetishists? After all, nakedness shouldn't be seen as something remotely sexual.

I agree that womanhood is painted as inferior by society & that if it wasn't treated as less, we wouldn't have young women & girls doubting or repressing their femininity. It's heartbreaking to see that this is still an issue. At the same time, cis women conflicted on their womanhood for these reasons are not the same as trans men & transmasculine individuals.

OligoN · 29/04/2024 12:46

noraclavicle · 29/04/2024 12:39

“Respectfully, cisgender is a medical term”

With all the respect due to you (i.e. not much), no, it is not.

Gender identity is fabricated, nebulous, meaningless nonsense.

And intersex is not a third sex.

The absolute brass neck of you, coming here after all the years intelligent, rational educated women from all professions and all walks of life have considered and discussed this new religion and dismissed it with reason and logic and think the same mindless catechisms repeated ad infinitum by every two-bit bottom-level thinker that’s been here before you are going to sway them?

Really?!

I think we are now closer to decades.

The Vanity Fair cover was definitely a peak for me, and there were others peaked long before that, that cover, (where Jenner is not coincidentally dressed as an aging starlet from the era of Jenner’s puberty) was 2015.

Dumbo12 · 29/04/2024 12:40

Can I just point out that the person lecturing us appears to think that MAP is some form of good thing that people can be organised into see this copy and paste:-
"I'd say that many trans people especially face intense backlash so it makes sense why so many struggle psychologically as this world wasn't made with them in mind. I think it's great that services like MAP exist to help all people who struggle & high rates of said group just go to show that society makes it way harder for them to peacefully function. What are your thoughts?"

noraclavicle · 29/04/2024 12:39

“Respectfully, cisgender is a medical term”

With all the respect due to you (i.e. not much), no, it is not.

Gender identity is fabricated, nebulous, meaningless nonsense.

And intersex is not a third sex.

The absolute brass neck of you, coming here after all the years intelligent, rational educated women from all professions and all walks of life have considered and discussed this new religion and dismissed it with reason and logic and think the same mindless catechisms repeated ad infinitum by every two-bit bottom-level thinker that’s been here before you are going to sway them?

Really?!

OligoN · 29/04/2024 12:39

CriticalCondition · 29/04/2024 12:21

Me too.

<Checks self for penis.>

Me three… and that time Paula and I outed ourselves as “watcher of WW2 documentaries” definitely men.

Kucinghitam · 29/04/2024 12:38

Yesterday DD accidentally knocked the toilet roll holder off the wall and came to ask me to fix it. So I got the tools out and did so. She didn't ask DH, because she knows that he can't tell the difference between an Allen key and a Phillips screwdriver. And anyway, he was busy making a banana loaf with the overripe fruit that was becoming Drosophila Central.

I think that means I'm living as a man and DH as a woman.

CriticalCondition · 29/04/2024 12:35

Today I'm wearing a hoodie, no makeup and I'm going to saw up a fallen tree later. So far this morning I've done some tricky maths and sent a couple of firm emails. They did not include any softening language. Am I living as a man?

Feckedupbundle · 29/04/2024 12:32

Today I'm wearing men's trousers and working on the farm,but I also did the washing up. Won't somebody please help me and tell me if I'm living as a woman or a man?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/04/2024 12:28

Dear Wims

I made a cake yesterday but I did it wearing trousers inbetween watching the cricket and ordering some more moisturiser

am I living as a man or a woman

yours

deeply confused of FWR

CriticalCondition · 29/04/2024 12:21

Motorina · 29/04/2024 12:10

I put my own bins out. Definitely man.

Me too.

<Checks self for penis.>

DeanElderberry · 29/04/2024 12:18

Gender in the way it has been used since the 1990s is a nonsensical term connected with the whole 'trans' narrative. I do not have a gender. I do not 'live as a woman' , I just am a woman.

How exactly would one 'live as a woman' anyway?

CriticalCondition · 29/04/2024 12:16

Yesterday my husband wore a pink shirt, had a long chat with his mum who was a bit upset about something, did the hoovering and made a cake.
Was he living as a woman?

Motorina · 29/04/2024 12:10

I put my own bins out. Definitely man.

TheCoffeeNebula · 29/04/2024 12:07

BeHappyHedgehog · 29/04/2024 11:24

I understand your thoughts on self harm scarring. As mentioned in the screenshot, some of the marks were stretch marks & some were self harm scars. I see you think that people shouldn't feel they have to mask their scars & I agree. There's a lot of art made by people who have struggled in that way to make people feel they're not alone & that it does get better. If you were someone who is going through hell, knowing that people have gone through hell & back & are still standing would be indeed lifesaving. It's not pretty but it's the reality of many. May I also mention that the self harm scars on the sculpture are fully healed? That implies perseverance & literal healing

My god, you're patronising.

CriticalCondition · 29/04/2024 12:07

Sex is a trait that describes one's reproductive organs, i.e. female, male or intersex

Are you saying there are three sexes? Please could you explain what the reproductive organs of the third sex are?