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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

There's nothing I can do about this, is there?

356 replies

Acunningruse · 11/04/2024 18:57

Visited a different city today for work and went to a branch of Caffè Nero. I was served by what was very clearly a man, despite his attempt to look female and the fact he was wearing a she/her badge. Said man was wearing extremely tight leggings which, as he was wearing a waist-length t-shirt, meant his manhood was obviously visible. His appearance was a source of mumbling/muttering in the queue and he seemed to be enjoying the attention with a lot of hair-flicking.

I m not able to articulate why this made me so uncomfortable- other than the fact that no way in hell would I want to share a bathroom or changing room with this person.

But there's nothing at all to be done, is there? As any objection would surely be met with accusations of "discrimination " and "be kind".

Just so so frustrating. I just wanted to scream "you are not a woman!!!!" But I can't, can I.

OP posts:
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GoodOldEmmaNess · 12/04/2024 09:03

Goldfishonabike · 11/04/2024 20:55

disclaimer I’m not a trans activist and do believe that biological gender exists and that yes, some people feel they’re on an spectrum but these are few and I’m against gender change treatments for kids etc etc.

but: OP, in all honesty, do you maybe want to examine your motives for wanting to complain about this? What makes you so fearful/outraged? If it was a woman in a very low cut top and nipples showing through, would you also complain? If so, fair play.

but: bodies aren’t really dangerous and even if you had to see the outline of a man’s penis for a split second, is that so unbearable to you? Plenty of sports also have tight wear which shows genitals (yea I know being a barista isn’t the same, but no one falls over themselves to complain over that). You should try going to Germany to do a bit of mixed gender sauna, you’d maybe develop a more chill attitude to body parts then.

if truly have time enough on your hands to go and make some stranger miserable because you laid eyes on his penis for a few seconds, then, by all means go on, but it may better for your mental health and worldview to go volunteer in a shelter for trans people.

I agree with this post. All that seems to have happened here is that someone was wearing tight leggings that revealed the outline of his genitals. The guy also happened to be wearing a cross-sex pronouns badge, but is that really relevant?

If the clothing was revealing enough to be inappropriate, then it would be inappropriate with or without the badge. If you complain (which you should only do if you have evidence that the guy was actually flashing, rather than wearing the male equivalent of a too-low-for-work cleavage), complain on the basis of the clothing, not the conjunction of clothing and pronouns.

PorkChopJohnson · 12/04/2024 09:00

You felt uncomfortable because you were an unconsenting player in that man's fetish.
You felt uncomfortable because he had power over you - you couldn't complain, could you now, without him yelling Karen or Transphobe at you. So you had to stand there as as he got off on your forced compliance.

Even dressed in a wig and leggings, it's obvious male entitlement.

Crankywiddershins · 12/04/2024 08:53

@Acunningruse Said man was wearing extremely tight leggings which, as he was wearing a waist-length t-shirt, meant his manhood was obviously visible.

**Sounds a bit Isla Bryson to me. Are you sure they weren't part of a prisoner rehabilitation program?

ZeldaFighter · 12/04/2024 08:37

I'm surprised at the attempts to minimise this. This person has clearly dressed in a way that shows their penis, through their clothes. That's inappropriate, especially in a customer facing scenario.

I (hope i would have had the balls) would have asked to see the manager at the time and asked them to explain why they thought allowing indecency in a public shop was acceptable.

Goldfishonabike · 12/04/2024 06:32

agent765 · 11/04/2024 23:40

You're uncomfortable for a very specific reason - your fight or flight was trying to kick in.

You subconsciously found this man a threat.

Many of us here, myself included, have at least once in our lives ignored this feeling and paid a very high price.

You were obviously safe in this particular environment and that man was no real threat to you but if you were alone with him in a darkened area your body would be screaming at you to get away. Fight or flight. Survival mode.

This man was enjoying his power. Re-claim yours and please complain. The suggestions here that you focus on his genitalia rather than his half-arsed attempt to look female from the waist up are sound.

Where is the management at this store? I assume the manager is female and too afraid to tell him to present in an acceptable, inoffensive way.

I also assume goldfish is a man as women just know (even if they feel confused or uncomfortable) when they're in front of a man who likes intimidating women.

Edited

Lol this is truly the first time I’ve been accused of being a man!

sashh · 12/04/2024 06:28

I'd write to them saying you do not want to see the genitals of any member of staff and that they should consider the uniform employees wear.

Also you are worried about the health and safety because with such a tight fit any spill of coffee / hot water could be a serious accident.

No mention of sex/gender/which member of staff.

Commonhousewitch · 12/04/2024 03:52

I don't think you need to mention the gender/trans question- just note that the dress was inappropriate and genitals were clearly visible. A camel's hoof would be inappropriate too,
I did google and see that rivals such as starbucks have a policy that leggings are only appropriate worn under a skirt etc - not discriminatory

CriticalCondition · 12/04/2024 02:29

GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight · 12/04/2024 01:42

@Goldfishonabike it's not just you, I'm a bit baffled as to what they've actually done wrong.
So they're wearing tight trousers.
Erm, Ok?
,😕
Seems about the gist of it, apart from the OP thinking the (wig in their eyes, can't be hair) is a problem too. Even if hair is tied back Confused

Why all the 'they's? The guy was wearing a she/her pronoun badge. If you're going to excuse and minimise the display of lady penis, do at least put some effort in and use the guy's preferred pronouns.
Tsk, tsk.

GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight · 12/04/2024 01:42

@Goldfishonabike it's not just you, I'm a bit baffled as to what they've actually done wrong.
So they're wearing tight trousers.
Erm, Ok?
,😕
Seems about the gist of it, apart from the OP thinking the (wig in their eyes, can't be hair) is a problem too. Even if hair is tied back Confused

CriticalCondition · 12/04/2024 01:13

It's a coffee shop. It's the school holidays. It's not a German sauna, a gym, a pub or a bar. There will almost certainly be children there. They should not have to see a man's visible cock and balls parading up and down by the coffee machine and they certainly shouldn't have them hovering a few inches away from their faces if he's tending tables.

greenlettuce · 12/04/2024 00:09

I complained to a local pub running a drag event - it was sort of a normal event with a drag host which is was advertised as that, I think it was a quiz but can't quite remember. The pub was in the town I live in. I phoned up and just said very calmly that I understood that some people would like this but I did to think it appropriate for a family pub and would no longer go there. The phone was put down on me!!! Clearly you are not allowed to have an opinion

Woman2023 · 12/04/2024 00:07

I don't understand why Goldfish thinks that British culture isn't good enough. Men wearing tights/leggings which show off their cock and balls whilst serving coffee is generally considered inappropriate.

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 11/04/2024 23:59

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MaybeRevisitYourWipingT3chnique · 11/04/2024 23:54

What's the betting that, if a female employee were to wear something super tight that very clearly showed the full shape of her breasts, so that it was the first thing that anybody couldn't help but see - even though breasts are not able to be used to rape anybody, so not considered a potential threat - her manager would be straight on to her, ordering her to dress more appropriately?

This is one of the things that causes such divisions - when TRAs demand more rights than everybody else, often obtained by directly taking them from other people.

If this person had just worn the uniform as appropriate, like everybody else, nobody would have cared about his own beliefs, preferences and identity - just like they wouldn't care about anybody else's there, as long as they do their job.

agent765 · 11/04/2024 23:40

Acunningruse · 11/04/2024 18:57

Visited a different city today for work and went to a branch of Caffè Nero. I was served by what was very clearly a man, despite his attempt to look female and the fact he was wearing a she/her badge. Said man was wearing extremely tight leggings which, as he was wearing a waist-length t-shirt, meant his manhood was obviously visible. His appearance was a source of mumbling/muttering in the queue and he seemed to be enjoying the attention with a lot of hair-flicking.

I m not able to articulate why this made me so uncomfortable- other than the fact that no way in hell would I want to share a bathroom or changing room with this person.

But there's nothing at all to be done, is there? As any objection would surely be met with accusations of "discrimination " and "be kind".

Just so so frustrating. I just wanted to scream "you are not a woman!!!!" But I can't, can I.

You're uncomfortable for a very specific reason - your fight or flight was trying to kick in.

You subconsciously found this man a threat.

Many of us here, myself included, have at least once in our lives ignored this feeling and paid a very high price.

You were obviously safe in this particular environment and that man was no real threat to you but if you were alone with him in a darkened area your body would be screaming at you to get away. Fight or flight. Survival mode.

This man was enjoying his power. Re-claim yours and please complain. The suggestions here that you focus on his genitalia rather than his half-arsed attempt to look female from the waist up are sound.

Where is the management at this store? I assume the manager is female and too afraid to tell him to present in an acceptable, inoffensive way.

I also assume goldfish is a man as women just know (even if they feel confused or uncomfortable) when they're in front of a man who likes intimidating women.

CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment · 11/04/2024 21:42

Just mention the barely concealed genitalia in your complaint, not the wig or anything else.

HappierTimesAhead · 11/04/2024 21:30

@Goldfishonabike You realise that women can campaign for our rights in a myriad of ways don't you? Being gender critical doesn't preclude us from other campaigning, quite the opposite.

And I have to disagree that transwomen are leading the way in gender fluidity because donning a dress and a shit wig and claiming you are a woman is not progressive IMO.

Karensalright · 11/04/2024 21:29

Hmmm i have a whiff of another version of a 68 year old biologist in the room, hope i am right or i shall feel very ashamed.

Kalevala · 11/04/2024 21:26

Do women wear leggings with a regular t-shirt, does the dress code allow this? Or are they in proper trousers? Employees of either sex should be held to the same standards.

TrishTrix · 11/04/2024 21:26

@HermioneWeasley snap!

TrishTrix · 11/04/2024 21:25

@Goldfishonabike when you look at the offending profiles of trans prisoners it appears that sex offenders are over represented.

"Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent official count of transgender prisoners):
76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3% 13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%"
Source: Evidence submitted to the parliamentary committee

Report

CriticalCondition · 11/04/2024 21:23

If he was waiting on or clearing tables that little (?) display would be at eye level and inches away. Most customers don't want a side order of visible cock with their coffee and cake.

Complain.

HermioneWeasley · 11/04/2024 21:22

@Goldfishonabike

MOJ stats - of the trans identified males in prison nearly half are there for sex offences vs around 20% of the rest of the male prison population. There is nothing to suggest this subset of males poses less risk to women and children and a growing body of evidence that they pose more.

WickedSerious · 11/04/2024 21:22

Goldfishonabike · 11/04/2024 21:19

Yea it is well known that many trans people assault women!?

It is indeed,thanks for the reminder.

ValerieDoonican · 11/04/2024 21:21

It is, yes @Goldfishonabike

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