Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Conversations about JK Rowling

111 replies

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/04/2024 07:52

I'm friends with a group of women who are mainly based in the US and Canada, and all politically left leaning. I deliberately do not mention anything to do with gender because I know that they are all very TWAW and would be horrified to learn that I am not. A particular subset of this group are big fans of Harry Potter but by common consensus do not talk about JK Rowling because they're all so disappointed about her stance on this issue.

Recently, however, one of them started a private conversation with me about JK Rowling. We had previously talked about the Cormoran Strike series and in particular about how Troubled Blood is not a transphobic book and the people claiming it is have clearly not read it. Then recently I sent her a message saying that the title of the next book has just been announced.

Out of nowhere, she said she wished JK Rowling would stop being transphobic so everyone could just go back to being a fan. I'm fairly sure that my friend had sensed that my views aren't aligned with those of the rest of the group and was testing me.

I didn't want to lie to my friend, and more importantly I didn't want to take the coward's way out and pretend that I also think JK Rowling is a hateful bigot when she has been so brave in sticking her head above the parapet in front of the entire world on this issue.

So I started by asking my friend whether she had actually read JK Rowling's essay. She replied that she had skim read it, but really, she was just appalled by the whole thing. I said I had read the whole thing because when people started accusing her of transphobia I wanted to find out what she had actually said, and judge for myself. I said I didn't agree that she was transphobic, but that she has serious concerns about women's rights and child safeguarding. I also said that in the UK, the idea that women should have some single sex spaces and sports is one that most people support. My friend said she actually agreed with that.

My friend then said that whilst there might be valid arguments to be made around single sex spaces, the way JK Rowling has expressed her views has been really harmful, especially given the context of the way LGBTQ people are being treated in many parts of America.

I responded by saying that context is important. JK Rowling doesn't live in America, she lives in the UK. In the UK we have no political equivalent of the American right wing, because even our Conservatives are more akin to the US Democrats on both economic and social issues. JK Rowling does not live in America, she doesn't vote in their elections and she's not responsible for who the American people elect to represent them or what they do. She is, however, entitled to have an opinion and to speak about what is happening in her own country, i.e. the UK and more specifically, Scotland.

I then went on to list some of the most concerning things that have happened in the UK and particularly in Scotland over the last few years, with a particular focus on prisons, rape crisis services and Maya Forstater. I told her about what had led to JK Rowling deciding to set up and solely fund Beira's place, and that trans activists had been trying to have it forced to accept male survivors or shut down. I told her all about Mridul Wadhwa, quoting extensively from the horse's mouth.

I also said that JK Rowling is far from the only person to be concerned about irreversible medical interventions being performed on trans identifying children, and expressed my private belief that puberty blockers are likely to be banned across Europe within a few years, given that the UK and France are now following the lead of the Scandinavian countries in putting the brakes on some of these practices, because the long term evidence in favour of them is really not good.

She said she understood all of that but wished that JK Rowling had not chosen this hill to die on, and that even though these issues are important, she feels that the harm caused to the LGBTQ community has been greater than the small benefit to other groups from speaking out. I said I disagreed, and that for female prisoners and rape survivors, as well as children who will now hopefully get more ethically responsible healthcare, these are not small matters.

I finished by picking up on a particular point she had made about JK Rowling suggesting she "doesn't believe trans women are women" and I said that I think the "trans women are women" mantra is actually really harmful to women because we all have our arms twisted to say it, and then the fact that we have said it is used as a justification for taking away our single sex rape crisis support or letting male athletes compete in our sports. I said that a few years ago I would have said that trans women are women but now I think it's a lot more complicated than that and if she's being honest with herself, so does she.

She never replied to that last message but she is continuing to engage with me in the group chat. I am not planning to talk to her about this issue again unless she specifically brings it up. But I privately believe that the message hit home and now she doesn't know what to do with it.

OP posts:
terffert · 03/04/2024 08:55

It takes time. Don't be impatient; pushing can have the opposite effect to the one you want. I had an email exchange a bit like this with a friend (an irl one but not a close friend at that time) and she went quiet and I thought she'd likely just decided I was a horrible terf and we shouldn't talk about the subject again. I dropped the subject and we went back to usual. A decade later, though, I learned that she had changed her opinions on the subject and we were completely aligned. I don't suppose it was just my emails and indeed she wasn't sure she remembered them when I asked her about it! I flatter myself they may well have helped though :-)

RebelliousCow · 03/04/2024 08:29

I'm curious as to when you say 'friends' do you mean social media 'friends' or 'real life' friends.

RoyalCorgi · 03/04/2024 08:28

That sounds like you put your arguments beautifully, OP. I really admire you taking the time and effort to engage your friend in this way. I tend to avoid these conversations altogether because I worry that I will just end up calling someone a moron.

sashh · 03/04/2024 08:25

There is a £1 million prize for anyone who can show JKR has said or done anything transphobic.

ManchesterBeatrice · 03/04/2024 08:25

Sounds like you both had a balanced argument, she made her points, you made yours.

Whether you end up agreeing or not, it's still good to have a balenced argument ☺️

1plus1equalswindow · 03/04/2024 08:22

You need to keep exposing yourself, chipping away slowly. I have faith everyone will come round in the end.

1plus1equalswindow · 03/04/2024 08:21

I had a similar conversation just this week. Afterwards I forwarded the whole group this link
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/jk-rowling-transphobic-how-i-went-from-spreading-this-false-narrative-to-seeing-right-through-it-ej-rosetta-3961211

I haven't had a response 😂

The smearing is incredibly effective, that even if people understand the arguments, they think that maybe they're missing something, that she really must be transphobic somehow.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/04/2024 08:20

BeBraveLittlePenguin · 03/04/2024 08:01

And it will get easier every time you have a conversation like this.
Conversation by conversation, women reaching out to women, is the way all of us can do our bit to stop this madness.

I hope so, and think so. I had actually considered mentioning the topic to her, because I know she's a fan of Rowling's writing, she's a science teacher, and frankly I just think she's too intelligent to actually believe all this stuff. But every time I thought about testing the water I decided against it, until she decided to bring it up herself.

I strongly get the impression that she hates JK Rowling talking about this stuff because it puts her in a position where she either has to join in the daily hate against one of her favourite authors or risk making herself a social outcast, and it would all be so much easier for her if JK Rowling just stuck to being a much beloved author. But the fact that she initiated the conversation herself, and didn't end it by blocking me and informing the rest of the group that they have an evil TERF in their midst suggests to me that she is starting to ask herself these questions in private.

OP posts:
AcheyBreaky · 03/04/2024 08:14

I think most women who have been sucked into the being kind, trans women are women, they just want to pee etc are decent people who genuinely do want to be nice to others. As in their intentions are good. And thanks to a (highly successful) campaign of misinformation spreading from TRAs they believe lies about JKR et al.

I also think most of these kind hearted women will see the light eventually, but it takes time. Sometimes it needs a bit more age and life experience, it did for me. My mum despairs of my sister in law's views but I just think she hasn't seen the light yet. Millions of women haven't. It seems like your friend will get there soon enough OP. Keep the faith.

EmpressaurusOfTheScathingTinsel · 03/04/2024 08:12

Sounds like you’ve done really well.

As a lesbian, I’d also say that JKR is much more of a friend to lesbians than any alphabet soup group is. The likes of Stonewall are the acceptable face of homophobia nowadays.

BeBraveLittlePenguin · 03/04/2024 08:01

And it will get easier every time you have a conversation like this.
Conversation by conversation, women reaching out to women, is the way all of us can do our bit to stop this madness.

Swipe left for the next trending thread