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Original poster

Conversations about JK Rowling

111 replies

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/04/2024 07:52

I'm friends with a group of women who are mainly based in the US and Canada, and all politically left leaning. I deliberately do not mention anything to do with gender because I know that they are all very TWAW and would be horrified to learn that I am not. A particular subset of this group are big fans of Harry Potter but by common consensus do not talk about JK Rowling because they're all so disappointed about her stance on this issue.

Recently, however, one of them started a private conversation with me about JK Rowling. We had previously talked about the Cormoran Strike series and in particular about how Troubled Blood is not a transphobic book and the people claiming it is have clearly not read it. Then recently I sent her a message saying that the title of the next book has just been announced.

Out of nowhere, she said she wished JK Rowling would stop being transphobic so everyone could just go back to being a fan. I'm fairly sure that my friend had sensed that my views aren't aligned with those of the rest of the group and was testing me.

I didn't want to lie to my friend, and more importantly I didn't want to take the coward's way out and pretend that I also think JK Rowling is a hateful bigot when she has been so brave in sticking her head above the parapet in front of the entire world on this issue.

So I started by asking my friend whether she had actually read JK Rowling's essay. She replied that she had skim read it, but really, she was just appalled by the whole thing. I said I had read the whole thing because when people started accusing her of transphobia I wanted to find out what she had actually said, and judge for myself. I said I didn't agree that she was transphobic, but that she has serious concerns about women's rights and child safeguarding. I also said that in the UK, the idea that women should have some single sex spaces and sports is one that most people support. My friend said she actually agreed with that.

My friend then said that whilst there might be valid arguments to be made around single sex spaces, the way JK Rowling has expressed her views has been really harmful, especially given the context of the way LGBTQ people are being treated in many parts of America.

I responded by saying that context is important. JK Rowling doesn't live in America, she lives in the UK. In the UK we have no political equivalent of the American right wing, because even our Conservatives are more akin to the US Democrats on both economic and social issues. JK Rowling does not live in America, she doesn't vote in their elections and she's not responsible for who the American people elect to represent them or what they do. She is, however, entitled to have an opinion and to speak about what is happening in her own country, i.e. the UK and more specifically, Scotland.

I then went on to list some of the most concerning things that have happened in the UK and particularly in Scotland over the last few years, with a particular focus on prisons, rape crisis services and Maya Forstater. I told her about what had led to JK Rowling deciding to set up and solely fund Beira's place, and that trans activists had been trying to have it forced to accept male survivors or shut down. I told her all about Mridul Wadhwa, quoting extensively from the horse's mouth.

I also said that JK Rowling is far from the only person to be concerned about irreversible medical interventions being performed on trans identifying children, and expressed my private belief that puberty blockers are likely to be banned across Europe within a few years, given that the UK and France are now following the lead of the Scandinavian countries in putting the brakes on some of these practices, because the long term evidence in favour of them is really not good.

She said she understood all of that but wished that JK Rowling had not chosen this hill to die on, and that even though these issues are important, she feels that the harm caused to the LGBTQ community has been greater than the small benefit to other groups from speaking out. I said I disagreed, and that for female prisoners and rape survivors, as well as children who will now hopefully get more ethically responsible healthcare, these are not small matters.

I finished by picking up on a particular point she had made about JK Rowling suggesting she "doesn't believe trans women are women" and I said that I think the "trans women are women" mantra is actually really harmful to women because we all have our arms twisted to say it, and then the fact that we have said it is used as a justification for taking away our single sex rape crisis support or letting male athletes compete in our sports. I said that a few years ago I would have said that trans women are women but now I think it's a lot more complicated than that and if she's being honest with herself, so does she.

She never replied to that last message but she is continuing to engage with me in the group chat. I am not planning to talk to her about this issue again unless she specifically brings it up. But I privately believe that the message hit home and now she doesn't know what to do with it.

OP posts:
Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 07/04/2024 09:21

Emotionalsupportviper · 07/04/2024 09:17

If they're so secure in their own position, why wouldn't they want to understand the opposing arguments, so that they are better able to refute them?

Exactly this!

You cannot claim to be to be X if you haven't properly listened to the arguments for, and understood the reasoning behind, the contrary opinion, Y.

Maybe you find it hard to articulate your own opinion - but you'll never be able to do it unless you consider others and are able to contradict them without resorting to "Shuttup!"

Exactly this. If you offered me the opportunity to debate a trans activist on live television I am confident that I could make a compelling argument to support my point of view, without straw manning or name calling, and that I would have a good answer to every single point the other person might make.

I would have nothing to be afraid of other than the possibility of people just calling me a bigot without listening to a word I had said.

Can the other side really say the same?

OP posts:
Emotionalsupportviper · 07/04/2024 09:17

If they're so secure in their own position, why wouldn't they want to understand the opposing arguments, so that they are better able to refute them?

Exactly this!

You cannot claim to be to be X if you haven't properly listened to the arguments for, and understood the reasoning behind, the contrary opinion, Y.

Maybe you find it hard to articulate your own opinion - but you'll never be able to do it unless you consider others and are able to contradict them without resorting to "Shuttup!"

crunchermuncher · 07/04/2024 08:52

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 07/04/2024 07:09

In the end the desire to have a final word was too strong and I reached out to the woman I had my initial conversation with. Either she is less intellectually curious than I thought or the peer pressure is too strong.

She said that I should consider that the fact that 50 intelligent women disagree with me is evidence that I am wrong about this. No awareness of the fact that that is exactly how echo chambers work.

I said that the reason 50 intelligent women disagreeing with me hasn't caused me to re-evaluate my opinion is because they demonstrated no sign of having actually understood the arguments of the people they were vilifying, and no desire to understand.

Believe it or not, I haven't ruled out the possibility that I am wrong about this. But in order to change my mind I would need people on the opposing side of the debate to engage with me sensibly, show that they have understood what my position is and what people like JK Rowling and other gender critical feminists are saying, and actually explain why they disagree. Frothing about TERFs and bigots just isn't going to cut it.

Anyway, she blocked me.

You put this so well.

I'm crap with names but there was a philosopher (Socrates maybe?) who said that a strong argument is still a strong argument even if many disagree with you. (I'm not paraphrasing this well either, maybe someon eelse knows what I mean? )

If you have good arguments, a bunch of people disagreeing without even engaging with you doesn't make you wrong.

Well done for having confidence 👏

crunchermuncher · 07/04/2024 08:40

I think the concept of psychological safety has been stolen and mangled by this movement.

In newspeak, it now means 'your points are giving me cognitive dissonance which feels uncomfortable, lalala I can't hear you'.

It's another example of wanting feelings to override facts.

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 07/04/2024 08:22

I'm inherently suspicious of anyone saying that ideas make them feel unsafe and shouldn't be discussed.

The only exception I can really think of is denial of or justification of genocide. I can totally understand how Jewish people would feel unsafe if people started talking about how the Holocaust didn't really happen or Hitler had the right idea, because 6 million of their community were murdered less than 100 years ago and it could happen again under the right (by which I mean wrong) conditions.

But talking about single sex spaces and sports for women, or whether children should really be socially or medically transitioned, clearly does not meet that threshold.

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DisappearingGirl · 07/04/2024 08:13

she didn’t feel psychologically safe talking about this

I've heard variations on this so many times. It's mad isn't it? In fact it does suggest people are going "lalala". We can discuss so many terrible things - the holocaust, apartheid, terrible wars in Ukraine and the Middle East - without feeling "psychologically unsafe".

That and the refusal to read JKR's fairly short essay, makes me think people are too afraid of what they might think if they actually thought about it in detail.

Having said that, I do still have "Am I the baddy" moments on this, when everyone else seems to hold a different opinion.

MariaVT65 · 07/04/2024 07:44

The few conversations I’ve had about all this with other people have honestly been an eye opener. You think someone is intelligent, but then they come out with some outrageous stuff.

I have a lovely friend who is highly-educated, worked very hard to own her own home, works in head office of a major company, but when we were discussing the transgender movement, she didn’t actually know that your sex is actually in your DNA. I gave an example of an episode of Silent Witness I remembered from years ago where they were trying to identify a male body severely burnt in a train crash, and the reason they struggled to identify the body was because they identified as female and had changed their documents. My friend had literally no idea that your body in that state would always be identified as your biological sex.

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 07/04/2024 07:43

Muthaofcats · 07/04/2024 07:20

This was such a good listen - I mentioned I was listening to it to a friend and didn’t even say what I had concluded I just wanted to understand better - and my friend said the fact I was even listening to it was offensive and that I even wanted to talk about j k Rowling was upsetting her as she is a ‘hate speaker’. She said jk Rowling should be cancelled and destroyed for the things she’d said but that Diane Abbott should be forgiven for what she said about Jewish people because she had ‘said sorry’. She said she hadn’t actually read the essay as she didn’t need to.

she then shut me down saying she didn’t feel psychologically safe talking about this and left me feeling ashamed and furious and we’ve never spoken about it again.

we’ve been friends since we were kids so I’m not about to cut ties but felt very disappointed that the ‘liberal left’ now means furiously cancelling and shaming anyone who disagrees with you. It feels so bigoted and the opposite of what I grew up thinking it meant to be liberal or lefty.

Show quote history

You know what, this illustrates exactly what the problem is.

I've listened to speeches and read articles written by Tory politicians without becoming a Tory. Ditto with Labour.

I've listened to what Trump has to say and I still think he's a piece of shit.

I could read Mein Kampf to try to understand Hitler's mentality and I'm certain that it wouldn't turn me into a raging Nazi.

So what are they so afraid of?

If they're so secure in their own position, why wouldn't they want to understand the opposing arguments, so that they are better able to refute them?

If someone is afraid to even expose themselves to an opposing viewpoint, in my opinion the likelihood that they are wrong increases exponentially.

I have considered both sides of this argument, in detail. They haven't.

I would much rather be wrong.

If I could wake up tomorrow having had an epiphany that trans women really are women and I have been wrong about everything, I would be a little embarrassed, but it would be so much easier than holding an opinion that can get you fired or make former friends cut you out of their lives. And I have no doubt that the people on the other side of this argument would welcome me with open arms, because what church doesn't love a former non believer who has seen the light?

The fact that so many people, including people I love and respect, don't agree with me, is what makes me think I am probably right. Because I would rather agree with them.

And I would rather find out that women and children haven't actually been harmed, that I fell for a load of propaganda, and that everything is actually fine.

OP posts:
Muthaofcats · 07/04/2024 07:20

Skyellaskerry · 03/04/2024 10:08

I recently listened to the podcast the witch trials of JKR, could you maybe recommend this? I thought it was very balanced and a fascinating listen, and had a US focus too.

This was such a good listen - I mentioned I was listening to it to a friend and didn’t even say what I had concluded I just wanted to understand better - and my friend said the fact I was even listening to it was offensive and that I even wanted to talk about j k Rowling was upsetting her as she is a ‘hate speaker’. She said jk Rowling should be cancelled and destroyed for the things she’d said but that Diane Abbott should be forgiven for what she said about Jewish people because she had ‘said sorry’. She said she hadn’t actually read the essay as she didn’t need to.

she then shut me down saying she didn’t feel psychologically safe talking about this and left me feeling ashamed and furious and we’ve never spoken about it again.

we’ve been friends since we were kids so I’m not about to cut ties but felt very disappointed that the ‘liberal left’ now means furiously cancelling and shaming anyone who disagrees with you. It feels so bigoted and the opposite of what I grew up thinking it meant to be liberal or lefty.

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 07/04/2024 07:13

Oh and her parting shot was "the fact that you are still talking about JKR tells me everything I need to know".

Which I thought was deeply ironic given that she lives rent free in their heads.

OP posts:
Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 07/04/2024 07:09

In the end the desire to have a final word was too strong and I reached out to the woman I had my initial conversation with. Either she is less intellectually curious than I thought or the peer pressure is too strong.

She said that I should consider that the fact that 50 intelligent women disagree with me is evidence that I am wrong about this. No awareness of the fact that that is exactly how echo chambers work.

I said that the reason 50 intelligent women disagreeing with me hasn't caused me to re-evaluate my opinion is because they demonstrated no sign of having actually understood the arguments of the people they were vilifying, and no desire to understand.

Believe it or not, I haven't ruled out the possibility that I am wrong about this. But in order to change my mind I would need people on the opposing side of the debate to engage with me sensibly, show that they have understood what my position is and what people like JK Rowling and other gender critical feminists are saying, and actually explain why they disagree. Frothing about TERFs and bigots just isn't going to cut it.

Anyway, she blocked me.

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WaterThyme · 06/04/2024 16:59

Some years ago I worked in a university with researchers from many different countries. Those from the US were always the ones who had little or no idea that things worked differently in different countries. Anyone else came expecting to learn how things worked in a foreign country. The ones from the US just assumed their system was the norm everywhere.

crunchermuncher · 06/04/2024 15:10

Disappointing when someone with obvious intelligence claims to be unable to follow/grasp the salient points.

CorruptedCauldron · 06/04/2024 13:35

This was tweeted by Philip Pullman back in October 2018: “Am I alone in finding the trans argument impossible to follow? If someone could tell me which side I should be on, it would save a lot of worry.”

I think he wanted to be shown what the good people on the so-called right side of history believe, so he could nail his colours to the correct mast. It is disappointing.

Calyx72 · 06/04/2024 12:53

"I was thinking about my own feelings towards Philip Pullman. I've been a fan of his work since my early teens but thanks to Twitter I now know that he has personal views which I find abhorrent. When I first became aware of him getting involved in the debate, I made a point of finding out exactly what he had said. I thought it was important to at least give him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately I ended up concluding that he is a pompous, misogynistic windbag with an over-inflated sense of his own importance. This is particularly disappointing given that he created one of my favourite female characters of all time. I couldn't believe, and still can't believe, that the man who imagined Sally Lockhart into existence 40 years ago could fail so utterly to understand the gender critical perspective. I also strongly suspect that he has taken the position that he has in part because he is jealous that JK Rowling has been so much more commercially successful than him. Which is stupid. I mean, he's still Philip Pullman, one of the best known British children's authors."
@MissScarletInTheBallroom are you me 😅
I feel exactly the same way.

I like you even more now SmileFlowersGrin

crunchermuncher · 06/04/2024 12:39

Well done OP you have behaved with dignity and integrity. How awful to be kicked out of a group just because you have a different point of view. What a world 😥

I am constantly struck by the hypocrisy of the people judging JKR and her works. Do they still watch films directed by convicted rapist Harvey Weinstein? Do they give the same critical consideration to the creators of their other media or is it only JKR that gets judged in this misogynistic, virtue signaling way?

If the former, why do they consider rape to be less serious than offending TRAs? If the latter, why the hypocrisy?

Men aren't even judged on their actions half the time. Women are judged on their words. Such double standards.

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 06/04/2024 11:41

CorruptedCauldron · 06/04/2024 10:23

Now, I would have thought that if you were a huge Harry Potter fan and genuinely loved and admired JK Rowling, you would have taken the time to actually go and read what she has written about this issue and judge for yourself whether you think she has said anything transphobic or not, rather than just jumping on this bandwagon. Given how much joy she's given you over the years, surely it is the least you could do.

Such a good point, MissScarlet - back when I knew very little about the trans debate, I couldn’t understand why JK was suddenly being painted as a terrible hateful bigot. Despite hearing from many trusted sources about her awfulness, I just couldn’t take it at face value. I had to go away and read everything she’d said, and judge it for myself. As you say, it’s the least I could do, as an admirer of her work.

People need to make their own informed decisions but they need to want to do the work. For some people, the glow of feeling that they’re the good guys is enough for them to not bother delving below the surface of this controversial issue. They can just repeat what other good people have told them. Why is JK going on about this disadvantaged marginalised group, has she nothing better to do, etc.

It might have been worth sending the WhatsApp group a link to the Jonathan Pie video about the hate crime bill - a short and sweet satirical takedown. But now that you’ve been ousted, hopefully some of the quieter ones on the WhatsApp chat will be spurred on to explore the issues in more depth. A group member being kicked out during a reasonable discussion is something that will not be easily forgotten by any fence-sitters, I suspect.

I was thinking about my own feelings towards Philip Pullman. I've been a fan of his work since my early teens but thanks to Twitter I now know that he has personal views which I find abhorrent. When I first became aware of him getting involved in the debate, I made a point of finding out exactly what he had said. I thought it was important to at least give him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately I ended up concluding that he is a pompous, misogynistic windbag with an over-inflated sense of his own importance. This is particularly disappointing given that he created one of my favourite female characters of all time. I couldn't believe, and still can't believe, that the man who imagined Sally Lockhart into existence 40 years ago could fail so utterly to understand the gender critical perspective. I also strongly suspect that he has taken the position that he has in part because he is jealous that JK Rowling has been so much more commercially successful than him. Which is stupid. I mean, he's still Philip Pullman, one of the best known British children's authors.

But I can still enjoy his books whilst being disappointed by the man.

The difference is that no one cares whether or not I like Philip Pullman's books or whether I agree with his personal opinions.

I have not constructed a huge part of my personal identity around his books. I don't own shit ton of Sally Lockhart merchandise. I didn't have a Dark Materials themed wedding. And most importantly, he hasn't become a hate figure in the eyes of everyone I know and I am not required to participate in a ridiculous permanent ritual of hate against the man in order to have permission to continue to enjoy his books.

And thank fuck for that.

I am from, and live in, a country where I am allowed to like whatever books and authors I like, and agree or not agree with the opinions of public figures, and the people in my life respect my right to do that. They respect my right to have different opinions, as I respect theirs.

I feel sorry for the people who, in a different life, might be more like the women on this forum, but because of the society they live in, are not free to be.

OP posts:
CorruptedCauldron · 06/04/2024 10:23

Now, I would have thought that if you were a huge Harry Potter fan and genuinely loved and admired JK Rowling, you would have taken the time to actually go and read what she has written about this issue and judge for yourself whether you think she has said anything transphobic or not, rather than just jumping on this bandwagon. Given how much joy she's given you over the years, surely it is the least you could do.

Such a good point, MissScarlet - back when I knew very little about the trans debate, I couldn’t understand why JK was suddenly being painted as a terrible hateful bigot. Despite hearing from many trusted sources about her awfulness, I just couldn’t take it at face value. I had to go away and read everything she’d said, and judge it for myself. As you say, it’s the least I could do, as an admirer of her work.

People need to make their own informed decisions but they need to want to do the work. For some people, the glow of feeling that they’re the good guys is enough for them to not bother delving below the surface of this controversial issue. They can just repeat what other good people have told them. Why is JK going on about this disadvantaged marginalised group, has she nothing better to do, etc.

It might have been worth sending the WhatsApp group a link to the Jonathan Pie video about the hate crime bill - a short and sweet satirical takedown. But now that you’ve been ousted, hopefully some of the quieter ones on the WhatsApp chat will be spurred on to explore the issues in more depth. A group member being kicked out during a reasonable discussion is something that will not be easily forgotten by any fence-sitters, I suspect.

EdithStourton · 06/04/2024 09:34

@MissScarletInTheBallroom that is a very lucid rant, better than I would manage under such provocation.

I just do not understand people having nothing to do with those they disagree with. I deal regularly with people who I know or am 90% sure have politics very different to mine. This is probably why I don't think that all Tories are evil...

You're right, they do need to grow up!

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 06/04/2024 08:51

I've been thinking about this situation again overnight and have some things which I would really like to say to the person I had my original conversation with, but I don't think it would be a good idea, so I am going to say them here instead.

(With apologies in advance to a couple of posters in this thread who appear to be American.)

Firstly, I am a left wing feminist who believes that women should be allowed some single sex spaces and politely tried to explain to them that there is a political context to JKR's recent tweets, of which they, being American and not up to speed on UK/Scottish politics, are entirely ignorant. If they are so wedded to their own viewpoint that they refuse to listen to or talk to me or have anything further to do with me after I revealed that I don't share their point of view on ONE ISSUE, the chances of them being willing to listen to or engage with people on the conservative side of the political divide in America are basically zero. But they need to engage with those people in order to get anything done. If they want their right to an abortion enshrined in federal law, for example, or a legal right to paid maternity leave, they need to win over large numbers of people who do not currently agree with their point of view. They're not going to do that by dismissing those people as ignorant and bigoted and refusing to talk to them. So if the women in that group are representative of what "progressives" in America are generally like, it's no wonder they can't fucking make any progress.

Secondly, they need to grow the fuck up. Every last one of those women is the mother of a three year old. Some of them have older children. But I felt like I was being ganged up on by a group of 15 year old girls. A sizeable group of them are huge Harry Potter fans and have a dedicated WhatsApp chat where they share Harry Potter memes and photos of their kids dressed up in Harry Potter merchandise. When the daily hate started in the main WhatsApp group, several of them started moaning about how they love Harry Potter and are trying not to let the fact that its author has become an evil bigot ruin it for them. One person said they will never buy any of JK Rowling's books again and only buy unofficial merchandise so they can be sure they're not putting any money in her pocket. Another confessed to buying the Hogwarts Legacy game but said that they made a sizeable donation to a trans charity at the same time by way of penance. (It's not fucking carbon offsetting, you plonker!) Now, I would have thought that if you were a huge Harry Potter fan and genuinely loved and admired JK Rowling, you would have taken the time to actually go and read what she has written about this issue and judge for yourself whether you think she has said anything transphobic or not, rather than just jumping on this bandwagon. Given how much joy she's given you over the years, surely it is the least you could do. That is what I did, which is why I don't agree that she is transphobic. But even if you didn't want to do that, or you genuinely did read what she has written and still think she is transphobic, maybe it's time to move on from Harry Potter. It's a children's book published 20 odd years ago. You're 35. Many other wonderful books have been published in the meantime, including books which are actually written for adults, which is what you now are. So maybe start behaving like one.

I feel that I've managed to behave with dignity so far, which is why I am dumping these thoughts here rather than sending an, "And another thing!" message to the women whose phone numbers I still have.

Taking the high road and all that.

But I think they are absolutely pathetic. I have lost nothing of any value here.

OP posts:
Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/04/2024 19:41

WarriorN · 05/04/2024 15:30

I had the most open chat with my friend who is a social worker ever today, whereby she was spouting forth about the importance of single sex spaces etc.

She knows how I feel, but I've never really spent a great deal of time talking about my specialist subject on it with her; it was nice to be spoken to as if 'granny sucked eggs!'

What's it like among social workers? Are they utterly captured or a bit more grounded in reality given that they have to understand safeguarding?

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MidgeGreensteet · 05/04/2024 15:45

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/04/2024 15:25

Just to clarify, as far as I'm aware that woman is not encouraging her son to believe that he is a girl, just to have long hair and wear nail varnish if he wants to. But he's not yet at the age where he might get the idea that he is a girl and tell her that he thinks he is a girl, so it could easily happen. I don't think she would put the idea in his head though.

Show quote history

I understand that, but the "be-kind", ill-considered views these people are displaying makes that leap far more likely.

WarriorN · 05/04/2024 15:30

I had the most open chat with my friend who is a social worker ever today, whereby she was spouting forth about the importance of single sex spaces etc.

She knows how I feel, but I've never really spent a great deal of time talking about my specialist subject on it with her; it was nice to be spoken to as if 'granny sucked eggs!'

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/04/2024 15:29

DisappearingGirl · 05/04/2024 14:42

I think one of the biggest confusions in all this for the general public is the difference between "trans" and "gender non-conforming".

I've seen so many well-meaning people say things like "so what if a boy wants long hair and nail polish, if he turns out to be trans that's okay". Or books for kids saying it's okay for girls to like football or boys to like cooking etc, then sliding into the fact that some people are trans or non-binary. I think people struggle to separate the two, i.e. that it's fine not to conform to gender stereotypes, but in most cases that doesn't mean kids "are trans" and need medical treatment or to start using the other sex toilets etc.

People seem to think you either support kids transitioning, or you agree with rigid gender stereotypes. As the OP says, this is particularly true in the US where there's a much more conservative viewpoint about gender roles.

You're absolutely right.

My son is a walking gender stereotype who is not interested in much except cars and trucks.

But if he were more like her son, and wanted to have long hair and wear nail varnish, like her I would say it was absolutely fine for him to have long hair and wear nail varnish.

Where she and I diverge, I think, is that if her son went walking around in the world with his long hair and nail varnish and people told him he was a girl and he went to her and said, "I want to be a girl", she would tell him he can be a girl if he wants to. Whereas if that happened to my son I would explain to him that he is a boy because of his body parts, not because of how he likes to dress, and that he shouldn't listen to anyone who tries to tell him he is a girl.

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Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/04/2024 15:25

MidgeGreensteet · 05/04/2024 14:21

Most young people's feelings of gender dysphoria dissipate which is why watching and waiting is more important than affirmation. I imagine the most vociferous supporters of trans rights are the parents who cheer lead their children into medicalisation (see Susie Green) - you wouldn't be able to sleep at night if you allowed yourself to think for one minute that it had been a mistake.

No amount of nail polish or long hair turns male into female. Your friends are sadly complicit in this immoral and fucked up mess.

Just to clarify, as far as I'm aware that woman is not encouraging her son to believe that he is a girl, just to have long hair and wear nail varnish if he wants to. But he's not yet at the age where he might get the idea that he is a girl and tell her that he thinks he is a girl, so it could easily happen. I don't think she would put the idea in his head though.

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