An MSP (Murdo Fraser) threatening legal action against Police Scotland after his twitter/x post was logged as a hate incident

The Times article includes this:

“…the police can release NCHIs under “enhanced disclosure” to HR departments assessing the suitability of candidates for certain jobs. You didn’t get that social work post you were so well qualified for? Just don’t ask“.

Assuming this is correct, the hate crime finding can’t just be logged against the complaint, it must be logged against the alleged hate crime offender or it wouldn’t be searchable for enhanced disclosure.

It really is. Terrifying that is.

You can see the attacks on mn around this. How motivated are the few to clamp down women speaking? Very I’d say

Thankyou @ArabellaScott and @Froodwithatowel

At the end of the Daily Mail article about Murdo Fraser it says that "hate incident" reports are currently logged against the person who makes the complaint, not against the person who is complained about. So they would only "count" against the accused person if a crime was committed by the accused person against the person who made the complaint.

Is that all about to change under this new act?

@AlisonDonut

How would their names appear if their names are not recorded alongside the incident? For them to appear in a file they must be recorded.

The explanation in the article makes it sound as if the name is recorded on a record of the 'incident' connected to the complainant, not the alleged perpetrator.

So if John Smith made a complaint about Alison Donut, there would be a record in which both names would appear, but (and this I'm not sure about) there wouldn't be a file created specifically about or linked to Alison Donut. So a future police check of Alison Donut wouldn't (or would it?) reveal any non-crime incidents.

Actually I've just thought of a practicality: for the police to do a police check on someone, they need more than just the person's name (how else could they distinguish between all the different John Smiths in the country?). So they also need date of birth, if not more more information, in order to verify the identify of the correct person. Which won't be supplied by the complainant in the majority of these cases, so there's no way for the police to actually record the incident against the alleged perpetrator, unless the incident is so serious that they investigate and formally establish the identity of the alleged perpetrator.

In this case the police reviewed the comment and deemed it not worthy of further investigation. Although a complaint about 'Murdo Fraser MSP' would narrow it down to Murdo Fraser the MSP, just the name 'Murdo Fraser' alone wouldn't be enough to link it to a specific individual with that name and therefore the police can't record it against a specific Murdo Fraser if they haven't investigated further to identify the correct individual.

I'm a Carer in a rural part of Scotland. My only opportunity to discuss things is online. It will no longer be safe to do so. Not because I post anything 'hateful' but because 'hate' will now be entirely in the eyes of the beholder (bystander even) & that will be noted & recorded in perpetuity. It's terrifying.

Thanks everyone who voted SNP and subjected us to this shit.

To link to the thread of evidence and resources that Arabella created:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5032028-scottish-hate-crime-bill-information-and-resources

and a post made by Arabella there:

A Mumsnet employee doxxed members before.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/986693530302205954.html

And serial litigant Stephanie Hayden successfully sued Mumsnet to reveal a member's reg'd name (luckily this turned out to be a made up one).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6912343/Transgender-activist-claims-information-given-Mumsnet-misleading.html

Also a quoted tweet from a well known activist stating that from April 1st to say that TW are not women is a hate crime, and encouraging others to report.

The thing is, I imagine quite a lot of people - politicians, police, and others - think this is quite a good idea. Here we are on FWR worrying about women and gender, but it could be anything really. The act puts "hate" in the eye of the beholder and/or the discretion of the police until it gets to court. There must be a lot of people thinking how useful such an act could be. Not all of them very nice people. And watching with interest from the rest of the UK to see how it works out in Scotland. It's a bit like the Poll Tax only this time we did it to ourselves.

To make them seem friendlier, will there be a Tom o' Shanter on a SJC Warrior that makes an identifying lapel pin? Maybe a nice distinguishing armband? They could be mobile clype stations, ever ready to pull out a smartphone and set to with the paperwork.

Report hate now. Ask me how.

I wonder whether MNHQ has taken legal advice on this.

When the new law comes into force on April 1st we wont be told if an allegation has been made against us but it stays on our record, so we will all need to make regular subject access requests. Which could (sadly) be a bit of a bureaucratic burden on the police.

As was pointed out at the Alloa Women's Festival on Saturday.

It has been shown time and again, that the FWR users think things through to effects down the line, when paid government advisers, politicians, police, large organisations, funding organisations etc etc etc fail to even think to the end of the sentence.

Because they DON'T FUCKING CARE.

That's the point of all of this.

And I wouldn’t underestimate how angry they are. We see it daily in the aggression and threats

This gives yet more legal basis to attack women

On Mnhq in pp, maybe they could clarify. They are not based in Scotland but I’m not sure how it would work for posts

Thank you that's very helpful indeed!

If these NCHIs do appear on a PVG then won't the PVG people (disclosure Scotland, is it?) have to update any volunteer organisations they're involved with.
So, women could suddenly be not welcome to run/help out at the Brownie troop, athletics club, swimming club etc?
Considering women are the backbone of a lot of kids activities this could decimate them.

@medianewbie you open the link, copy the extended web address in the browser address line and paste that into archive.ph
I hope that helps.

The Stasi I think.

Can you explain how I can use the archive method / site to read it please?

Because a dysfunctional male objected to you stating reality or wanting rights. We see them daily on FWR.

We also see other posters (not male) announcing that they're reporting someone on threads or are considering reporting other posters. I shouldn't think it would take much to convert those posters into Hate Monster Allies/Champions. Is there a name for the civic branch of this? Stonewall Purity Police Monitors?

And they wonder why we have anonymous Twitter accounts.

You would not know if you'd had a NHCI filed against you
Isn't the solution for every woman in Scotland to ask for a Subject Access Request, on a frequent basis? Play them at their own game.

I expect many will withdraw from public life. I can't be the only one who's considering shutting down all social media. Why take the risk?

It's (almost) beyond belief.
People should be shouting from the rooftops (but are perhaps afraid to?).
THANK YOU for this thread.

I think it depends on police judgment whether its recorded against the alleged perpetrator?

Certainly SV Phillimore had one recorded against her, without her knowledge.

How would their names appear if their names are not recorded alongside the incident? For them to appear in a file they must be recorded.