An MSP (Murdo Fraser) threatening legal action against Police Scotland after his twitter/x post was logged as a hate incident

It won't have to make any sense. It doesn't have to be a crime. It doesn't even have to be factually correct. It's just the perception of the miffed person that it happened.

You won't know you've been informed on, unless you have a DBS check for a job and it comes up that you have a non-hate crime incident recorded against you.

As I said earlier: bear in mind the responses we've seen (often) on FWR... you could be reported for talking about lemon drizzle cakes in a manner that the person who read your comment perceived as miffing them.

Here is the cut and pasted section of the Hate Crime Act, section 4, stirring up hatred:

1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)the person—

(i)behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or

(ii)communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting ...

Accompanying Guidance:

'it is an offence for a person to behave in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive, or to communicate to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive, with the intention to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to one of the listed characteristics. The phrase “a reasonable person would consider” in section 4(2)(a)(i) and (ii) makes it clear that an objective standard is to be applied as to whether the behaviour or material referred to is threatening or abusive.

42.Section 4(7)(a) makes it clear that a person’s behaviour for the purpose of section 4(1)(a)(i) and (2)(a)(i) includes behaviour of any kind and, in particular, things said (therefore the spoken word, unrecorded speech) or otherwise communicated (e.g. displaying a poster, placard or banner; the printed media on the internet through websites, email, blogs, podcasts etc.), as well as things done by the person.

43.Section 4(7)(b) also provides that, for the purpose of that section, the person’s behaviour may consist of a single act or a course of conduct.

44.Section 4(8) defines the different ways in which a person may communicate material to another person for the purposes of an offence under section 4. The different ways in which a person may communicate material to another person are by:

Displaying, publishing or distributing the material e.g. on a sign; on the internet through websites, blogs, podcasts, social media etc., either directly, or by forwarding or repeating material that originates from a third party; through printed media such as magazine publications or leaflets, etc.

Giving, sending, showing or playing the material to another person e.g. through online streaming, by email, playing a video, through public performance of a play, etc.

Making the material available to another person in any way e.g. through the spoken word, the written word, electronic communications, etc. either directly (as the originator of the material), or by forwarding or repeating the material.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/notes/division/2/3/1/1

Only problem with this is that sex is not protected under the hate crime bill.
However I've been wondering if the hate messages, death and rape threats that call us cis women would fall under the perceived transgender identity/status aa they are directing the hate towards us due to their assumption about our transgender identity

So considering some of the issues that have come up at the Edinburgh Fringe in the last few years - this could present as a real issue for performers at the Fringe? Even be off-putting for some of the big names to want to attend.

I suppose a test case could be is stating biological reality ok or not?

Or is it very unlikely to happen idk

I'm expecting people in hate monster costumes and the yellow-jacketed with the comforting slogan

Report hate now. Ask me how.

to be standing round Sauchiehall Street any night of the week plus any areas or transport surrounding an Old Firm match, ready to log these.

It's going to do marvels for Scotland's tourism industry. People will disdain a photo with the Buckingham Palace Guards in their rush to embrace a hate monster.

Yes. No criteria, no definition. The crime depends on the perception of the person reporting.

Lots of people in Scotland don’t know about this yet even people I think are clued up on the news , some in my family

when I said you can report a hate crime to a fish farm they were 😳😳

I don’t know how people are not up in arms over this

Because it doesn't affect them yet. Because they think they won't do anything that will warrent someone reporting them. Because they think its so unbelievable that it isn't a real law. But probably because its not been in the main newspapers or TV news stations. They don't know what they don't know.

I'm hoping that in one months time "they" will have reported so many, for such ridiculous things, that the system collapses. If one politician can be reported then they all can

Gender fluid surely? Known as Jo (female) when she's writing kids books and known as Robert (male) when he's writing crime novels.

Pseudonym gender?

I don’t know how people are not up in arms over this

I assume it only applies from April 1st? The day full Orwell is invoked

I feel really woolly about this but does this mean it's going to risk investigation from Police Scotland if you leave a negative review of something? Could the law possibly be interpreted in such a daft way? Say you've had a shocking Air BnB experience or have been to a Frankie Boyle show?

I'm laughing here, but my 91yo Mum comes out with some stuff that would undoubtedly qualify, out of sheer ignorance of what's now acceptable terminology. Let's hope there aren't too many Grievance Studies* graduates in her orbit after 1st April.

*Love it!

I am concerned that the use of community centres, sex shops and mushroom farms in Scotland to log hate crimes may lead to people with like-minded interests being supported and encouraging in making accusations. Perhaps using their exisiting customer base (putting notices in public view, adding newsletter items, etc) shops/centres can help people in their circle make complaints.

Maybe the 2 minute hate will be transformed into the 5min daily clype and report everyone who looked cross-eyed at you even if they were wiping a midge from their eye at the time.

They could do the job from Mum's basement. It will all be online, won't it? So not even an increase in time spent in fresh air, daylight, touching grass etc etc. What a world.

It covers anything. There is no definition, it rests on the perception of the person reporting.

There are protections in the Act on 'reasonable person' grounds, and there are protections for freedom of speech. These make it less likely that people will be convicted.

Police guidelines don't refer to these protections.

It's on the other thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5032028-scottish-hate-crime-bill-information-and-resources

Has anyone seen the training or have information on what this covers?

I feel like we’re deep in Orwell and McCarthy land now

I'm afraid so.

A non-crime hate incident is by definition not a crime.

'Stirring up hatred' is a crime punishable by 7 years.

The FSU could put him in touch with a barrister who might work pro bono and no-win-no-fee. But I very much doubt that they would cover the police and court costs in the event of no-win. Those costs would be very substantial, I suspect it's why NCHIs haven't been challenged in court on a human rights basis. Perhaps JKR could bring a case against the Chief Constable responsible for logging the NCHI Willoughby demanded.

oh, so its going to get worse? Great.

If only JKR had the money and resources to give her lawyers her twitter login details, and instructions to report every single threat and harassment to police Scotland, and request an incident number for each one from the police.
JKR resides in Scotland so under the new law every threat and harassment she's received counts as a crime in Scotland.

One thing the police can do on the spot is decide is that something isn't worth the effort, and as soon as you stop speaking to them they just move onto the next thing. If however you ask for an incident number they have to give you one, and that process includes recording the incident. If you don't think the police are taking you seriously, make sure to ask for an incident number, don't stop talking until they give you one.

This is existing law, its not the new HCA.

I think we should all put non binary in our profiles anyway. It's not something anyone can prove.

The other thing, of course, is that J. K. Rowling has enough rape and death threats to wallpaper her house, which I imagine is on the large side.

And, judging by the posts on her timeline, they are sent by dozens and dozens of different people.

Can she just whack that lot over to the mushroom farm, claim she's non-binary and they need to get cracking.

Cos I'd like to see people dispute the fact that she's non-binary.

Let's go right to that wire.

We could have such fun with what do you mean you can't change your mind? What criteria? How do you know I'm lying? Now you're calling me a liar? I'm dialling the mushroom farm.