An MSP (Murdo Fraser) threatening legal action against Police Scotland after his twitter/x post was logged as a hate incident

I'm currently watching the series, The Rise of the Nazis. The similarities are jaw-dropping for me.

I'm not as up-to-speed as many here are as my concentration levels shot due to illness. I get a bit muddled on some things, too, so are happy to give an opinion even if it isn't spot on with technicalities. I also have difficulties remembering words - never helpful when trying to express an opinion.

However, even I can see how much this is following down the Nazi Germany of the 30s road.

One contributor notes that "quiet compliance" is needed for it to happen.

We are being heard. More people understand how ridiculous and harmful this is but fear speaking out for the obvious reasons of punishment. We need more men to step up to bring sunlight to this madness.

Maybe now it will happen.

if the reports are filed with the person who made the report, it will be easy to find out who the vexatious litigants are, though, won't it?

I'm imagining Lord Robert Winston being hog tied and bundled into the back of a rainbow van after appearing to discuss biology on a TV programme.
Looks like where we're headed.

42 years after White Dog, we have the updated version…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Dog_(1982_film)

😳

Mumsnetters in Scotland. Make sure you stock up on mushrooms and vibrators before April 1st! They'll be too busy to serve the regulars.

It seems Police Scotland are hiding some replies. Well, of course they are.

https://twitter.com/PoliceScotland/status/1772272340295897436

'Meet our new Digital Evidence Detection Dogs. They can find hidden digital devices which can help bring offenders to justice.'

Sniffing oot the hate monsters hidin in yer phone

I'm hoping more the level of library fines and star charts.

And if you share the article if I read pp correctly

I don't want to drink my whisky like you do
I don't need to spend my money, but still do
Don't stop now, now come on
Another drop now, come on

I wanna hate now, now come on
That's why, that's why

I said mama we're all monsters now
I said mama we're all monsters now
I said mama we're all monsters now
^^
Woo!

Its a good point. Every single journalist writing about women's sports, women's rights, child safeguarding, any of this, will have a recorded NCHI. Every speaker on tv and radio who addresses this. Many are going to have a long list.

However if that's the case it's rapidly going to become about as significant as speeding points and parking tickets.

They might get a few reports about their chief constable, and deputies, assistants etc.
And the evidence will be easy to find.

I'm imagining
@ArabellaScott going into her local police station and saying "I want to report a hate crime"
Officer McPlod, or the mushroom farm owner getting the report form out "Who do you want to report?"
Arabella, snatching the form "You!"

if the terves of Scotland can report every officer, that would be brilliant.

A respected journalist,s piece now a hate crime. Murdo retweeted the piece

hate crime or incident whatever the fuck the Stasi in Scotland now call it

I retweeted Susan’s piece

I am a hate monster now

So, I don't need to be on stage, if someone thought it was hateful to go to the gig I could be complained about.

I assume the comedians know that but I don suppose the audience does. Because it's totally nuts.

https://twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1772171471067939090

'As the author of the column which@murdo_fraser
retweeted and was reported for ‘hate crime’ I am understandably concerned that other work by me has been reported to@PoliceScotland
as a ‘hate crimes’. Completing a subject access request now, though can’t quite believe I am having to do this'

the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident or in recognising the malice element of a crime.

I think we are going to have to reach peak insanity on many levels, for this madness to exhaust itself.

I suspect it will be misinterpreted only if someone with a more powerful protected characteristic perceives it as such. (Bitter experience of lesbians and black women for example is that it doesn't work for them.)

So if for example you were discussing lemon drizzle cake in a manner perceived to be containing malice and animosity on a thread on TQ+ political issues? Perceived being the only relevant bit, that you were being maliciously disrespectful towards TQ+ characteristics via cake?

It'll be down to are the police sufficiently barmy to engage with all this.

And more bitter experience says....? Oh yes. Enthusiastically.

Yes they do, they also stay on your records for life and your not told that they are there unless you put in a subject access request.

Well, we're all going to have to do regular subject access requests aren't we? Like some people recommend doing regular credit checks. How often do you think?

Those guidance documents are scary.

How do we know what someone else's motives are? How do we know who is motivated by "malice"? And why are the police allowed to question the motives of the accused and not the accuser? Isn't it usually the other way round?

So a man could hurl all kinds of hatred and ill will at a women and nothing

But if they are upset by what.. biological reality? It’s a crime

Wouldn't it be great if "cis-" got classified as hateful under this new law......

Is it only what you say that counts?

For instance, tickets for Free Speech Nation's comedy gig in Edinburgh on the 1st go on sale tonight. If I bought tickets, went along, enjoyed myself and laughed at the comedians then is that a hateful action?

Can I be prosecuted for having a sense of humour?

@Hoardasurass
Yep you're right about sex not being protected ( which is nuts ).
But I'm sure in all the harassment there will be stuff that is protected e.g. if someone was to call JKR an old xxxxx, age is protected.
In the old days DMs may not have been covered because only JKR can see them ( not public ). But to be honest if JKR finds them offensive that seems to meet the bar of the new law. The law itself seems so vague that I'm sure a bunch of lawers could tie the police up in knots for months just from stuff posted publicly @ JKR.

So the new Act itself has the 'objective' standard to be applied.

Which would happen in court.

The police guidance as it stands:

https://www.scotland.police.uk/access-to-information/policies-and-procedures/guidance-documents/guidance-documents-g-i/

'Hate Crime - A hate crime is any crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated (wholly or partly) by malice and ill-will towards a social group.'

'3. Motivation

In Scotland, hate crime / incidents mean any crime or incident where the perpetrator’s actions are motivated wholly or partly, by malice and ill-will towards the individual, on the basis of their actual or presumed disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

If the perpetrators actions prior to, or immediately after the incident, demonstrates malice and ill-will towards the victim, on the basis of their actual or presumed disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity, then this provides evidence of motivation.

Victims of hate crimes / incidents do not have to be a member of any of the above social groups in order to be a victim. For example, an individual who is the victim of a transphobic incident does not have to be transgender, or disclose their transgender identity, for this to be perceived, recorded and investigated as a hate related incident.'

'Malice and ill-willUnderstanding malice and ill-will is important to understanding the extent of the hate. The term hate implies a high degree of animosity, whereas the definition and the legislation require that the crime must be demonstrated or motivated (wholly or partly) by malice and ill-will.

(In the absence of a precise legal definition of malice and ill-will, consideration should be given to the ordinary dictionary definition, to wish someone harm).

Perception

For recording purposes, the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident or in recognising the malice element of a crime. The perception of the victim should always be explored, however they do not have to justify or provide evidence of their belief and police officers or staff members should not directly challenge this perception. Evidence of malice and ill-will is not required for a hate crime or hate incident to be recorded and thereafter investigated as a hate crime or hate incident by police.

The alleged actions of the perpetrator must amount to a crime under Scottish Crime Recording Standard (SCRS) rules. If this is the case, the perception of the victim, or any other person, will decide whether the crime is recorded as a hate crime. If the facts do not identify a recordable crime but the victim perceives it to be a hate crime, the circumstances will be recorded as a hate incident (non- crime incident).'

I suppose this guidance may change come next week?