Woman arrested after two men found dead

I mean, this particular story also covers trust in the media and police. Which affects everyone.

What, women's rights are being discussed by women on a site called Mumsnet, left, right, and centre? Shocker.

My first thought was that the killer may well turn out to be a man. I don't trust the press at all now.

Women don't often kill men, women don't often kill two men. Or not at the same time, at least. But we don't yet know if they were killed at the same time or, indeed, any details about this one.

But I still don't believe the press. Never will again.

The muddying of the waters by media and police (and politicians) calling men women, and the fact that murder is mostly a male crime (even the skewed reporting of the correct sex of criminals) makes us see a headline like that and think ‘I wonder’.

Like when you see a ‘100 women…’ or ‘women’s prize for…’ and know there will be some in there who don’t belong.

It is changing slowly. Until very recently, any discussion outside this board was very quickly moved back. Hence this board became known as the naughty corner. I think it is a good thing that the subject is being raised elsewhere.

Is it exceptionally rare, though?

I'd say female murder is rare. Violent female murder is exceptionally rare. Doubly so female-on-male.

Given the lack of any indication of method, it could be non-violent, and that's the main reason I'd give benefit of the doubt that it could be really female.

The accused in this case has been released on bail.

And this is the other very likely possibility - the same as the case above. Arresting a person on the scene, on suspicion, but she's not the perpetrator. Again, given the odds, if the person on the scene is female, it probably wasn't her, but you've got to check, because it's not impossible.

To be fair I’ve met many women in Hartlepool who would be capable of killing two men…

I disagree it's on every topic

This. I find that I also question the reporting. I never used to. I also understand that women can and do commit violent offences, but I never used to think we were being lied to by the media and the authorities about it. I do now.

Yes, it could be a woman. Women do kill, though far less than men.

The issue is that we don’t know, because time and time again we find a few weeks down the line that the “woman” was a man, after all. Latest horrible example - Scarlet Blake, correctly identified as a man on here while all the reporting said woman. It’s “legal fiction” morphing into “legal lie”. And the media shouldn’t be publishing lies.

It's not really doing trans people any favours, this attempt to engineer reality.

Now whenever anyone reads of violent or abusive crime committed by a woman, their first response is to suspect its a transwoman.

The accused in this case has been released on bail.

It did cross my mind whether it was actually a woman. But it could be a poisoning, so no physical strength involved.

That doesn't seem particularly rare to me.

Someone living locally to me won a large sum on the lottery. I expect others have won lots of money. Doesn’t seem rare to me.

For heaven’s sake.

This! I no longer trust the media to report the truth.

Is it exceptionally rare, though? I just stated 2 cases in one year in my local area, and there's likely more I'm not aware of. That doesn't seem particularly rare to me.

Why are you talking about 'women' as a homogeneous block who share one opinion only?

MN only allows discussion of this topic on this board.

Surely OP’s point (which I definitely agree with) is that when things like this are reported, we simply don’t trust what a paper like The Guardian has published. We all understand the importance of reliable press reporting in a democracy. The fact that we are losing this is not nothing.

The point is we have to do this.

Given that the media policy is currently to lie whenever a man-who-says-he's-a-woman commits a crime, it is currently likely that any "woman" committing this sort of offense is male.

Female perpetrators are so rare, if there's any chance information could be fuzzy, believing a perpetrator to be female is likely a mistake, as urbanbuddha's "it's happened before" arrest example just demonstrated.

So it's left to us to try to find who of the reported "women" actually are women - not many.

I'd agree that this one at least doesn't seem spectacularly implausible yet, like the Scarlet Blake one - but there's not enough information to say either way.

Women can kill, and do. Not as often as men, and perhaps not for the same reasons - and they might choose different methods - but they murder.

Yes well done for stating the obvious. The point is that women who murder are exceptionally rare and for some reason the police and the press have taken to reporting and recording the crimes perpetrated by men as if they had been carried out by women. As a result of this women no longer believe what is being reported. It is important that we work out when we are being lied to so threads like this one are likely to be commonplace. Even where it turns out the woman in question was an actual woman.

Just in my local area, in two seperate incidents, a young woman killed a man violently. (Both were stabbings.) Are you suggesting these women perhaps were not women? Women can kill, and do. Not as often as men, and perhaps not for the same reasons - and they might choose different methods - but they murder.

Seems the 28 year old woman was the girlfriend of one of the victims, she was very upset on discovery of the bodies and was holding the murder weapon when the police arrived, so the cops tasered and charged her.

That charge seems to have been quietly dropped once the actual killer was charged.

(first 2 screenshots are from the article posted above, published the day the bodies were found, the 3rd screenshot is from an article published after the conviction 18 months later)

A man was convicted of those crimes

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/vytautas-garmus-charged-murder-house-ilford-b859136.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11036061/amp/Ex-detective-53-jailed-35-years-frenzied-murder-two-friends-owed-30-000-to.html

I can’t seem to find anything on the 28 year old woman who was charged immediately after but the killers wife was charged with perverting the course of justice.

We can't trust 'facts' reported in newspapers these days though. That much is clear across a whole range of topics.

Eventually it'll come out in court, then we'll probably know.

My first thought is that it's maybe drug related. A fatal reaction possibly.

It’s happened before.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/ilford-woman-arrested-murder-two-men-dead-b801541.html