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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Happy Women's History Month!

264 replies

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 11:17

I had no idea women got a whole month!!!

I can't wait to see the flags flying from every government building and all the celebrations of women in history everywhere. 😊

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SinnerBoy · 02/06/2024 11:51

496? Daahling, you're 400 if you're a day! mwouh!

Life was a struggle, and I never became a household name and there's no Grief des Damest-shirts or mugs or anything

Well, what's preventing from rectifying that now?

MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2024 11:47

This one that is all about moi, Marie de Gournay.

I was born in Paris in 1565 - though people tell me I don't look a day over 450. In my day posh girls were only supposed to study needlework and being ladylike enough to be marriageable, but I was having none of that, so I taught myself Latin and Greek and studied the classics and anything else I could get my hands on, thereby making myself totally unmarriageable Wink

I moved out of the family home to live on my own in Paris - you can imagine the raised eyebrows that caused! and set about earning my living through writing - not an easy job for a woman in the 15th century - has it got any easier? oh right, JKR, yeah I guess it has - but she struggled in the beginning too, didn't she? It takes a long time to be an overnight sensation.

I was, I confess, a complete fangirl for Michel de Montaigne, and I was lucky enough to meet him, and we totally clicked intellectually and he considered me his adopted daughter. We corresponded regularly until his death. His widow Francoise invited me to edit and publish his Essais, which I was honoured to do: 'I was his daughter: I am his memorial'.
I spent over a year living with her and their daughter Léonor, my adopted family, immersed in the works of the great Montaigne which I continued to edit.

I wrote about society, ethics, morals, language, education, poetics, philosophy - but MNers will probably consider my 'greatest hits' to be my Equality Between Men and Women and Grief des Dames /Complaint of the Ladies [not 'The Ladies' Complaint', that would be a different book altogether - translation can be a minefield!]
As I said in the Grief des Dames:
'this sex has its own power taken away; with this freedom gone, the possibility of developing virtues through the use of freedom disappears. This sex is left with the sovereign and unique virtues of ignorance, servitude, and the capacity to play the fool, if this game pleases it.'
If I posted something like that (OK I admit it would have to be updated a bit) on FWR today I'd get lots of 'This' and 👏and 💜, wouldn't I?

Life was a struggle, and I never became a household name and there's no Grief des Dames t-shirts or mugs or anything - maybe I just never met the right gerbilsSmile - but I was a trailblazer for women thinkers and writers and I was well respected by a select group in my day, most importantly by my dear friend the brilliant Michel de Montaigne, and I have been rediscovered by feminist scholars and philosophers recently.
So I approach my 460th birthday with a quiet satisfaction that the totality of my work is being appreciated at last. Not exactly an overnight sensation, but hey...
Gournay, Marie Le Jars de | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (utm.edu)

SinnerBoy · 01/06/2024 21:45

Blimey, Isobel Wylie Hutchinson was a fascinating woman and incredibly tough. She doesn't seem to have much recognition for all she did for botany and in such tough environments. I think her story would make a brilliant film.

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MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2024 12:44

It's me again, sorry if I'm over-posting, but I notice that Women's History Month has dwindled on this thread, and I've thought of someone else I'd like to celebrate: the woman who invented the paper bag!
well, the paper bag with a flat bottom, which became standard in the US and which people in American films carry their groceries in, one in each arm...

Margaret Knight was from a poor background, brought up by her widowed mother, and had to go and work in the textile mills in New Hampshire when she was 12.
She invented lots of things, as well as the paper bag, but because she was a woman, and because she wasn't able to get education/training past the age of 12, she didn't realise all her ambitions.
'I’m only sorry I couldn’t have had as good a chance as a boy, and have been put to my trade regularly'
Margaret E. Knight - Wikipedia

Margaret E. Knight - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_E._Knight

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2024 13:16

That is beautiful, Marie, thank you for sharing it.

(and yes, that's Margaret Cavendish's stepdaughter! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cavendish,_Countess_of_Bridgewater)

Elizabeth Cavendish, Countess of Bridgewater - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cavendish,_Countess_of_Bridgewater

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MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 13:00

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2024 11:25

Margaret Cavendish's fascinating life:

https://aeon.co/essays/the-contradictions-that-give-life-to-margaret-cavendishs-story

'In the 17th century, works by women reaching the printing press were vanishingly few and far between. Between 1621 and 1625, only eight works by women were published, an estimated 0.5 per cent of all books printed in the period. Between 1651 to 1655 – the years in which Cavendish published four volumes – 59 new works by women appeared; an estimated 1.3 per cent of total publications. Even with this uptick in women’s writing, the vast majority of these works by women were on the ‘safe’ subjects of maternal advice or religion. Women who didn’t stay within these boundaries risked more than just not being read; they could be branded as improper, as scandalous, as somehow promiscuous for baring their words to the page. Cavendish was a trend-setter, and an outlier.'

'Cavendish is normally remembered for three things: for being ‘mad’ (an accusation that has dogged her since an all-too-easily scandalised reader of her first book, one Dorothy Osborne, quipped that she had seen ‘soberer people in Bedlam’), for wearing outrageous clothes (she supposedly cavorted around London in a carriage pulled by eight white bulls, and wore dresses cut to below the level of her nipples), and, rather more nebulously, for being the ‘mother of science fiction’.'

'Cavendish’s book The Blazing World (1666) – with its futuristic submarines in a parallel world, races of anthropomorphic human-animals, and flashy scientific experiments – is indeed an early work of science fiction.'

'... the book is a romp of descriptions of philosophical experiments, with microscopes and mathematical explanations, scientific debates and explorations of sapphic love. Here, Cavendish was again radical: her explorations of lesbianism – in her plays, and in The Blazing World – are unusual for the 17th century. Rather than being the bawdy, sticky imaginations of men, her description of women’s relationships bears the hallmarks of truth and emotion. ‘But why may not I love a Woman with the same affection I could a Man?’ asks one of her characters in The Convent of Pleasure (1668).'

Her book 'Poems and Fancies'

https://archive.org/details/poemsfancies00newc/

Elizabeth Egerton, Countess of Bridgewater (née Lady Elizabeth Cavendish; 1626 – 14 July 1663)
stepdaughter?? of Margaret Cavendish - I think Margaret was the second wife of the Duke of Newcastle, Elizabeth's father, sorry I'm not great at history!

She also wrote about equality for women, but her writings about her children are so moving - she had 10 pregnancies, the final one taking her life; and only four of her children survived into adulthood.

I discovered her through her beautiful beautiful poem on the death of one of those babies, her son Henry. I won't copy it in here, as it is so moving and emotional I think it could be really difficult for anyone who has had that tragedy in their own life; but here's a link to it, with a big trigger warning, if you shared her experience, and if you have tears to shed, prepare to shed them, if you just have a heart:
Poem: On My Boy Henry by Elizabeth, Lady Brackley Egerton (poetrynook.com)

CrossPurposes · 31/05/2024 12:46

MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 12:35

Maybe the name Margaret Ann Bulkley, born in Cork in 1789 doesn't ring any bells, you might know her better as Dr James BarrySmile

She was a trans man - not a woman gaming the system to do what she was clearly good at, obviously - see this from The National Archives (!) https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/dr-james-barry/

I'm so angry at this missed opportunity to discuss why a woman might take on a male persona to study medicine decades before women were allowed to become doctors.

MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 12:35

Maybe the name Margaret Ann Bulkley, born in Cork in 1789 doesn't ring any bells, you might know her better as Dr James BarrySmile

MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 12:30

The Gráinne Ní Mháille, Grace O'Malley - Irish 'pirate queen' - leader and seafarer [aka 'pirate queen''] and all-round badass in 16th century Connacht . Her nickname, Gráinne Mhaol, ['Granuaile'] probably means that she had short hair. She sailed to Greenwich to meet with Queen Elizabeth I in 1593, and the Gaelic-speaking and English-speaking women conversed fluently in Latin, and seemed to get on well, Elizabeth granting freedom for Gráine's son and protection for her into her old age.

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2024 11:25

Margaret Cavendish's fascinating life:

https://aeon.co/essays/the-contradictions-that-give-life-to-margaret-cavendishs-story

'In the 17th century, works by women reaching the printing press were vanishingly few and far between. Between 1621 and 1625, only eight works by women were published, an estimated 0.5 per cent of all books printed in the period. Between 1651 to 1655 – the years in which Cavendish published four volumes – 59 new works by women appeared; an estimated 1.3 per cent of total publications. Even with this uptick in women’s writing, the vast majority of these works by women were on the ‘safe’ subjects of maternal advice or religion. Women who didn’t stay within these boundaries risked more than just not being read; they could be branded as improper, as scandalous, as somehow promiscuous for baring their words to the page. Cavendish was a trend-setter, and an outlier.'

'Cavendish is normally remembered for three things: for being ‘mad’ (an accusation that has dogged her since an all-too-easily scandalised reader of her first book, one Dorothy Osborne, quipped that she had seen ‘soberer people in Bedlam’), for wearing outrageous clothes (she supposedly cavorted around London in a carriage pulled by eight white bulls, and wore dresses cut to below the level of her nipples), and, rather more nebulously, for being the ‘mother of science fiction’.'

'Cavendish’s book The Blazing World (1666) – with its futuristic submarines in a parallel world, races of anthropomorphic human-animals, and flashy scientific experiments – is indeed an early work of science fiction.'

'... the book is a romp of descriptions of philosophical experiments, with microscopes and mathematical explanations, scientific debates and explorations of sapphic love. Here, Cavendish was again radical: her explorations of lesbianism – in her plays, and in The Blazing World – are unusual for the 17th century. Rather than being the bawdy, sticky imaginations of men, her description of women’s relationships bears the hallmarks of truth and emotion. ‘But why may not I love a Woman with the same affection I could a Man?’ asks one of her characters in The Convent of Pleasure (1668).'

Her book 'Poems and Fancies'

https://archive.org/details/poemsfancies00newc/

<p>Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, painted in 1665 by Peter Lely. Courtesy Wikipedia/the <a href="https://harleyfoundation.org.uk/about/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Harley Foundation</a></p>

The contradictions that give life to Margaret Cavendish’s story | Aeon Essays

Margaret Cavendish’s boldness and bravery set 17th-century society alight, but is she a feminist poster-girl for our times?

https://aeon.co/essays/the-contradictions-that-give-life-to-margaret-cavendishs-story

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SinnerBoy · 03/04/2024 10:10

Here is one about the world's first female aircraft engineer and designer. She overcame Polio as well:

https://twitter.com/TheAttagirls/status/1772888409066877291

https://twitter.com/TheAttagirls/status/1772888409066877291

EBearhug · 28/03/2024 17:31

CrossPurposes · 28/03/2024 13:49

The Pankhursts were not all of the same political viewpoint - Sylvia was a socialist and a pacifist who did much work in the east end of London. She also found time to have a relationship with Keir Hardy, an illegitimate child, and become friends with Haile Selassie: spartacus-educational.com/WpankhurstS.htm

She was also an artist and painted lots of women working.

CrossPurposes · 28/03/2024 13:49

The Pankhursts were not all of the same political viewpoint - Sylvia was a socialist and a pacifist who did much work in the east end of London. She also found time to have a relationship with Keir Hardy, an illegitimate child, and become friends with Haile Selassie: spartacus-educational.com/WpankhurstS.htm

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 12:40

I've been reading a lot about the police in the past week.

Here's a short history of women in policing:

https://www.bawp.org/women-in-policing-history/

And a little on Edith Smith, pioneering policewoman.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/story-uks-first-policewoman-edith-6287983

Edith Smith was the first woman given the power of arrest. Originally a nurse and midwife, in the outbreak of the first world war she became a voluntary police officer

'...a colleague Dorothy Peto described Edith Smith as “a woman of outstanding personality, fearless, motherly and adaptable”.

"They moved drunks on, visited the families of girls that they believed to be in “moral danger” and, controversially, enforced a curfew imposed on the women of Grantham by the Army."
The Oxton Society's history says that following this early period of work, "in November 1915 a meeting was held in Grantham to discuss the progress of the policewomen.
"The Bishop of Grantham was in the chair. The Chief Constable said he was most satisfied with the women's performance and that he now wanted their work to continue in an official capacity."'

After years working as a police officer, Edith went back to nursing. She took an overdose of morphine and died in 1923.

Women in Policing History | BAWP - British Association for Women in Policing

https://www.bawp.org/women-in-policing-history

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ErrolTheDragon · 25/03/2024 12:37

There's a nice little museum in Bath too, in the house Caroline and William shared for many years.

quantumbutterfly · 25/03/2024 10:13

Herschel park is surprisingly lovely.
Slough has a few parks but some are a little unsafe for lone women.

SinnerBoy · 25/03/2024 10:03

quantumbutterfly · Yesterday 22:20

Thank you, just googled. Used to live by herschel park in Slough.

Come, friendly bombs and fall on Slough
It's not fit for humans, now...

quantumbutterfly · 24/03/2024 22:22

We were usually socialised to be support humans as women, nice to see her getting recognition for her work.

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 22:20

She outlived William and worked with his son.

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ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 22:20

"Caroline wrote the inscription for her tombstone herself. It reads, "The eyes of her who is glorified here below turned to the starry heavens."'

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quantumbutterfly · 24/03/2024 22:20

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 22:18

His sister! Started assisting him.

Thank you, just googled. Used to live by herschel park in Slough.

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 22:18

His sister! Started assisting him.

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quantumbutterfly · 24/03/2024 22:17

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 22:16

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/caroline-herschel-first-paid-female-astronomer

Caroline Herschel, fist woman in Britain to earn a living from science, discovered eight comets, lived to age 97!

What relation to William Herschel?